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sepulchresofgod

The 3 month rule is for MDMA which has a metabolite that inhibits the body's reproduction of serotonin (and even that rule isn't based on any hard scientific evidence). For less neurotoxic serotonin releasing agents I would think once a month is probably fine but that's not based on anything scientific either. Personally I stick to the 1 month rule with usually more time in between so I can save it for a special occasion. I also don't use MDMA. 4-MMC is shown to be significantly less neurotoxic than MDMA so you definitely don't have to wait 3 months for that one


hypnagoggle

Man, 3-MMC definitely gave me the "suicide tuesday" effect though. I wonder what's the deal.


sepulchresofgod

Some people might be more sensitive to serotonin depletion or dose higher. 3-mmc is rather low on serotonin release iirc. I've never gotten any type of depression or feeling down after a couple runs with 6-apb, a few 3-fea experiences, and 1 with 3-mmc. For 3-mmc I didn't even take my usual supplements and I was still fine. Some people must be more sensitive to effects on serotonin


hypnagoggle

It's interesting the mixed information about 3-MMC. Subjectively it was more of a roll than anything else I ever tried. And early discussions seemed in agreement that it was a strong serotonin releaser. Then over the last year the conversation seems to have shifted, and people are saying it's more like cocaine. Anyway, you're fortunate that you haven't had that experience. Everyone's biochemistry is different. Incidentally, 6-APB gave me the same effect. I suspect it's not something to take for granted, but that's just my opinion. I used to hardly ever get comedowns on anything I tried, and over a period of time that changed. Edit: There doesn't appear to be conclusive evidence of 3-MMC's effects on serotonin one way or another. We continue to go off community reports of subjective effects, presumably.


sepulchresofgod

Yeah I've seen people recently say it's primarily dopamine and got downvoted for saying it was strong sert release so I figured I missed something and haven't bothered to check Wikipedia for binding affinities. Honestly it felt very heavy serotonin release to me as I was very sedated and couch locked when I tried it and it felt very similar to 6-apb except less energy which implies less dopamine. Maybe it was the dose. I took 150mg then another 150mg maybe 1.5-2hrs after which is definitely on the high side but it seemed safe at the time. Either way, I had a short run with untested MDMA in my late teens and I didn't know much about it so I was eyeballing doses and the first week I got a very nice afterglow and overcame a lot of social anxiety. Week later I got more and would take small doses daily for a week and always felt good and never had any type of hangover. Never got a hangover after 6-apb 3-mmc or 3-fea so maybe my serotonin levels are naturally higher or bounce back quicker. I only take supplements with 6-apb due to being more cautious with things that seem more like a full roll due to duration of effects


hypnagoggle

A search on 3-MMC didn't reveal any new information, and I figured that if a reputable lab had identified the serotonin affinity then the results would have made their way into the psychonautwiki entry at the very least. Interesting that you got the couch lock effect from 3-MMC. In comparison, it's always felt energetic to me, whereas 4-EMC caused me to take an impromptu nap. Haha. Sounds like you have a naturally robust serotonin system. I once though that was the case for me, in that I seemed to recover well from APBs. I think the very first time I did 3-MMC I did not get the post-roll blues, but the dose was only 125 mg (still the best euphoric high I've ever felt). If I pushed it into the 300 to 400 mg range over the course of a night, the blues were pretty much a guarantee. Nowadays with a few years of RC use under my belt, my recovery ability is not what it used to be, and as a result I just can't take them as often. I guess what I'm saying, one researcher to another, is that the robustness of your serotonin architecture may change over time, so do take that into consideration. I used to think the way I respond to drugs would always be the same and that didn't bear out.


RinzenKali

Yes it does: >"The corresponding 5-HT [serotonin] levels increased to 941% (mephedrone) and 911% (MDMA)." >"The neurochemical and functional properties of mephedrone [4-MMC] resemble those of MDMA, but it also shows an amphetamine-like effect in that it evokes a rapid release and elimination of DA [dopamine] in the brain reward system, a feature that may contribute to its potent re-inforcing properties." Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3246659/


swampGOAThanos

So both deplete your serotonin.. but 4MMC does NOT have a metabolite that inhibits serotonin reproduction, while mdma DOES.. so essentially, u can bounce back from 4MMC a lot quicker than u can from MDMA


Tired8281

"Drain" isn't really the right word. Think of a hot water tank. It's full of hot water. If you run the shower for a long time, the hot water in the tank eventually runs out, and your shower gets cold. But as soon as you turn off the shower, the hot water tank starts to re-accumulate hot water. It's the same with a releasing agent.


MR_LITHUANIA

Is 4 MMC what was known as M CAT pre ban?


uterusdweller

yep


DVSG1

Wouldn’t recommend but I did that pre-ban stuff for more than 92 days straight - Never in my life had a come down from drugs - I’m talking when it comes to feeling depressed or stuff like that nope - Extra Sleep yessir - It’s a weird thing I don’t believe in come-downs or bad trips 🙈


MR-hunter-2096

Just to be sure, i'd add some 5-HTP after the party. For sure not going to damage if taken when effects are vanished.


XANAXBAR2

Yes, but with high doses its advised to wait at least 2 halflifes before you start loading 5HTP. I always do 3x 150mg with a multivitamin for 2 days after And if I went overboard with molly, the next day I prefer a (low-medium dose) of an SSRI. I usually combine 25mg sertraline with 10-20 mg (max) of Citalopram. But this only works for Molly and the real neurotoxic variants. The real damage starts the day after. And for that SSRIs partially2 blocking the SERT receptors to prevent dopamine influx on your fucked up SERT reuptake,that what can potentially send the neuron in apoptosis I.e neurotoxicity


MR-hunter-2096

Respect, a real good knowledge for maximum damage reduction. Yes, forget to say, mephedrone is more neurotoxic that mdma. Doing it too often would not be very wise. But seen how redose compulsive is, I never really had it for more than 2-3 days :D