"Do whatever is necessary to keep operations flowing" sounds vaguely ominous.


The operations must flow.


By all means necessary.


\*they slide a silenced pistol across the table at you when you get the job


*with one bullet


And when you look quizzically but don't take it they slide it away and replace with a claw hammer...


You quickly shoot your boss and take his job.


Dare to dream friend


If we worked a might is right promotion structure I would have climbed way higher!... And then presumably gotten eaten by the bigger fish.


'The operations must flow' you mumble.


This is like one comment from being a movie trailer


The spice is life.


That bullet is your salary. You want the cash, dontcha? Get the job done, kid. My team will handle the cleanup.


The pay must roll!


The Ops Melange


Payroll power!


HR is the mind-killer.


HR is the little-death that brings total obliteration.


I will face HR


I will permit HR to pass over me and through me.


"And when the HR meeting has passed I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the HR has gone there will be nothing. Only my P60 will remain."


HR aka Safeguarders of the Business aka The Smiling Assassins


Good, good. Let the operations flow through you!


It is spoken.


The pay must roll!


"How good are you at tying nooses and copying someone's handwriting?"


Baron! Is that you?


The book keeper must awaken


Operations extend life. Operations expand conciousness. Operations are vital to ~~space travel~~ your boss looking good in their end of year performance evaluation.


I need you kill Pat and Mary. They preventing smooth flow of operations. Here is the company crowbar and kitchen towels.


haha 😂


This should be posted to the antiwork sub


That sub often carries a good message but the name "antiwork" just makes it sound like a bunch of really lazy people who think it's unfair that they have to do any form of work in life.


It is unfair! the term earn a living implies that we don’t deserve to be alive when born 😂


They love me like I was a brother They protect me, listen to me They dug me my very own garden Gave me sunshine, made me happy Nice dream.


This is funny as fuck.


It’s a mixed bag from what I’ve seen. Lots of genuinely good points, but also a lot of people who believe hunter gatherers had much better lifestyles than us today…


To be fair, many studies say they worked less than 20 hours a week. Obviously they still didn’t have better lives because they had extremely high mortality rates.


Even if that is true, I think it’s a bit more complex than looking at the raw hours worked. If you wanted to replicate hunter-gatherer lifestyle today, there are probably places you could move off the grid and give it a go. Even if you just wanted to work 20 hours a way, you could certainly survive that way so long as you weren’t too fussy about a lot of things, and still have a better life than hunter gatherers.


Mortality rates are 100% now? Were they higher in the Paleolithic?


Kinda depends on how you 'view' life though. It's a valid opinion to say that since hunter gatherers probably lived more in the moment (since they didn't have to prepare or forecast their lives much) it's very possible they were overall 'happier' people which would imply better lifestyles. Most of us live long lives today but agricultural/industrial/post-industrial lifestyles can be fairly miserable on account of all the mental rumination and what not. Longevity ≠ Happiness.


>who believe hunter gatherers had much better lifestyles than us today… In a way they do, they didn't have to worry about Climate Change that will basically bring about their extinction...


Climate Change that will basically bring about your extinction at some point in the future >>>>> Not knowing where your next meal is coming from, possibly leading your immediate extinction.


They really did. Think about the period of cataclysmic global warming they lived through


They were still vulnerable to climate change, though if they're lucky they can migrate somewhere else.


That is what the sub description said, and what a lot of it's content before it exploded in popularity.


But it isn’t that, so who cares what a subreddit is called.


Not limited to prostituting yourself to other people to get deadlines met on time.


I've worked in HR and have overseen the payroll function. It means all fuck ups are your responsibility. Payroll often isn't a 9-5 for this reason and is an accredited area that gets complicated very quickly.


Ah, dying for corporate, how heroic


Sexual favours to management.


He who controls the operations controls the universe.


I worked for them and they are Honestly the worst company I’ve ever worked for


Care to give more details?


Wages where never right, we could be sent anywhere. If you didn’t work all the hours of the clock you where told you wouldn’t be working for a few days. At Christmas we weren’t paid because apparently lads that worked 80+ hours a week didn’t accumulate any holidays. Working conditions where absolutely shocking. That’s just a few of the shit stuff they pulled


In fairness that could be why they’re looking for a new payroll assistant.


More than likely the payroll assistant got sick of being the punch bag for every grievance about missing hours or expenses. It's usually a manager (probably the owner in this case), who drags his feet on signing off timesheets or changes someone's to have no overtime on it. The payroll person of course gets the angry phone calls. A company that's paying 25k for a payroll admin doesn't scream, "We care about making sure our employees are looked after"


The owner was a whole different story , a small man with a big ego


Plenty of them around.




Oh and when covid closed everything down they put us all on the wage subsidy for one week , paid us all 350 and told us we have to sign up for pup


>As members of the human resources team, they act as assistants who do whatever is necessary to keep operations flowing This is not what human resources means


No, but they are labelling you human as a resource.


That's a COO and gets paid an additional figure.


Translation: "We're going to work you like a dog and act like you're the asshole when you become frustrated and quit"


Then say, "you know, the grass isn't always greener on the other side"


Accept the job and pay yourself whatever you want


"you go straight to jail"


Do not pass GO


Return embezzled 200M


Also 22k-25k. Then it’s going to be 25k motherfucker


For doing payroll for 2 companies, like 2 full time jobs rolled into one.


>2 full time jobs 4 full time jobs, you're doing payroll AND HR admin for two companies. For 22k. Edit: sorry, company's


6 full time jobs, they expect you to be an assistant while you are at it.




Too many places not even showing salary. Scumbags the lot.


You'd think there'd be some basic common sense laws to regulate how job listings are posted...No salary, your ad gets removed. Wrong classification (says "internship" but asks for 3 years experience), your ad gets removed. This could be done automatically using the power of algorithms.


And some of the places that do show a salary they won't even give you like. Between my partner and I we've had multiple experiences where you finally see the contract and the pay on the contract is significantly lower than the minimum wage they'd listed in the ad. It's ridiculous.


"Payroll Technician for both company's". The morons don't even know how to spell companies.


A shocking number of people believe that apostrophes are used for pluralisation.


It's even worse when they'll be completely inconsistent about the use of apostrophes for plurals in the same piece of text.




A lot of unnecessary capitals going on there.


\*apostrophy's. Your welcome.


Thanks, I hate this.


*Reported* *to the Hague*


This comment has made me lowkey angry


Yea haha, those idiot's!


This is why I'd like to announce the formation of the Society for the Prevention of Abhorrent Apostrophes. We won't rest until everyone knows how to pluralise properly.


What qualifications are they looking for? This country has a serious problem aiming too high for qualified candidates to receive sh*te pay.


And all the entry level jobs require multiple years of experience. I’m struggling so hard to get a job in my field because not only do they pay minimum wage but I need like two or three years of experience for all of them. My boyfriend was turned down after going through multiple interviews because he didn’t have enough experience. It was an internship!!


"Sorry, you're not qualified for this work experience as you have no work experience."


You need experience to get a job, you need a job to get experience 🤡


A friend of mine got a master's in business, which I always thought was a lucrative degree, and granted he did enter the job market during COVID last year like, but the highest salary he got offered after nearly six months looking was €30k. For someone with a master's that just seems ridiculous.


I was offered the same amount (in Dublin!) despite having 25+ experience in the related field - I politely declined the offer, which turned out to be a good move


I've haven't made under €90k for about 15 years (software dev, and I'm good at it). I still get offered 'fantastic opportunities' for €30-40k. I also see Jr software devs accept €28k p/a and think it's a good starter salary. They shouldn't work for less than €40k for their first job. There's huge demand. They're not a huge education on what you should be compensated. If you ever see a Jr software dev job offered at less than €40k p/a you're going to have a bad time.


Wud you have any advice for someone trying to get into software dev. I got a level 8 degree unrelated to computing which was shite. Have been using codecademy to learn some coding. Thinking of doing a 2 year software apprenticeship.


I don't have a degree and a lot of software devs don't. I'd hire someone with 2 years solid demonstrable experience over a recent grad with no experience *most* of the time, but that's just me. Your experience may vary. Don't get me wrong, there's huge value in education but I see software dev as an art. Take a shit painter. You could put him under an apprenticeship with Dali for 50 years. If he's a shit painter he's always going to be a shit painter. He can learn the theory till the day the earth ends and get it fully memorized but ask him to create something and he'll always be shit. Anyway, that aside, I'd advise you to spend 2 or 3 hours a night learning how to create. Put everything (and I mean everything) on GitHub or bitbucket, even if it's shit. Take some YouTube or Udemy classes on how to clone Netflix, ebay, Facebook etc and go through them until you get it 100%, all the while putting your own spin on them. You'll quickly learn how these monolithic sites are put together and why they are built that way, and be able to take those learnings to create something. You'll want to show some one that you can do something rather than you know how to do something. Experience and ability in this field will trump education 100% of the time. And you can easily demonstrate experience and ability if you have those down. If you get the right manager then ability may even trump experience. I've been on teams where we took someone on with no experience but just 'got it' over a guy with a masters. He just came across to us as extremely promising and he was fantastic on the job. Very smart and capable. We just had a feeling about him. Obviously a unique decision but there are hiring managers out there who actually know that a talented person doesn't have to be accomplished or educated. Code academy is fantastic. I'm not sure what courses you're taking but if they are frontend related then drop me a DM and I'll walk you through a path that will get you faced in the right direction. One thing for sure - never ever, under any circumstance should you accept under €40k for your first role. Seriously.


Absolutely mad! Some of the salaries here are shocking like.


Its insane,im pretty sure you could go pack shelves in tesco for the same pay


You could, at 40 hours a week 22k is almost minimum wage.


What's min wage (10.20 p/h) like 19k after tax?


If you ever want to convert hourly to annual wages, multiply by 2 and then put 000 on the end. €11 per hour goes to about €22,000 (because 40 hours by 50 weeks is 2 × 1000).


Ballpark but it's close enough for some quick maths.


this is so true


England is even worse. London is a seriously expensive city and all the graduate jobs I was looking at were staring at £16-20k.


I mean I know people who did HR in college: A 3 year course with 14 class hours a week, and brain dead simple assignments to get a level 8. I'd say a lot of these courses could be fit into a 2 year level 7 and be just as manageable but colleges LOVE to pad shit out for money.


That’s pretty insulting, it must be said, but at least they give their salary level unlike loads of other ads. (Small hint of sarcasm there).


Went for a bus drivin job few years ago, it was about 20 questions about what they want from me? I was like yeh that’s sound what’s the wage? “Oh it’s a CE scheme u keep your dole and we might throw u an extra €20 for fuel”!!!!! That shit is just to fiddle the unemployment figures fukn insulting shit!


Went to apply to an unpaid accountant internship as was desperate for experience. Was told I didn’t have enough experience for it but they could give me a pre-internship for just 380 Euro.


What in the name of all that is holy is a “pre-internship”? And isn’t the (alleged) point of an internship to give you experience?


It was apparently a night course which would qualify you for an internship down the line. I was broke, in the middle of a global pandemic, and getting desperate, but no way in hell would they put me in a classroom to go through debits and credits after I have just finished my Master’s. Luckily I got a job within a week of that shitshow so wasn’t tempted.


Jaysus. I’m in the middle of my master’s at the moment. Unpaid internships are evil.


Honest advice, look for work before you graduate. It’s going to be hard as fuck but you’ll have a much easier time getting a job. Because after finishing a Master’s, the POS HR heads won’t care about an exhausting full time course you’ve completed. I’ve honestly been asked why I wasn’t working during it. EDIT: Before you graduate as in, exam week. Obviously not plonk in the middle.


Look, if you're not willing to commit to the pre-internship, there's a pre-pre-internship you can apply for.


It takes twice as long and costs double but it'll definitely get you on the short-short list for pre-internship.


Wait, are they asking you to pay 380? or they are offering to pay the 380 to help you prepare for the internship?


Asking me to pay.




That is obviously a scam.


I don’t think so, they would have made it free if you were accepting Jobseekers for over three months… which at the time I unfortunately was not.


Any company that asks you to pay money for the chance to work for them are fecking scam artists regardless if it’s legal or not.


I had a look at an institute and it’s kind of an adult learning/night school programme. So it looked okay as it was mostly classroom work, but not what I needed. I will say it was scummy/scammy to post an internship on a job board and then counter offer it with a paid course.


Oh yeah no, they can keep their job if they’re gonna be at that shite. At 38 years of age, I have such a low tolerance for bullshit like that now.


Currently doing the CE scheme. It's definitely being used as a scam but, at least in my case, it's been kind of handy. I was unemployed for almost a year during lockdown and it really fucked with my overall stamina and drive. Got a part time office admin job with the CE scheme that only pays a little more than the dole. I actually make less than I did while I was unemployed since I have pay for public transport there and back 3 times a week. All that said, it got me used to working and keeping regular hours and I'm now in the process of interviewing for proper, full time, permanent office admin jobs and it's been a huge help to have an office admin job on my CV. You don't have to mention that it's CE either so potential employers just see that I have experience in a similar role. I wanted an office job for a while but, up until I started doing this CE job, I hardly ever got any responses since I just couldn't get my foot in the door. Now, I've had 3 callbacks in the last week and an in-person interview on Friday. I got lucky that the CE job I got was with a decent company that isn't trying to take advantage of the scheme but I've definitely seen a LOT of ridiculous CE jobs advertised that are basically just free labour that should be standard entry level positions with standard entry level pay. The whole scheme is ultimately flawed but it *can* be used to your advantage to flesh out your CV a bit (if you're lucky).


Similar story here. CE scheme has been handy for me as Im trying to go into a new field where all my prior work experience is fairly irrelevant. CE scheme at the moment with a local non-profit getting good experience and they're paying for me to do courses. Some places take the unmerciful piss when it comes to the CE, treating it as glorified slave labor, BUT some are actually on the level.


And what we're experiencing is kind of the point of CE... or at least what they sell it on. The issue is it's really being taken advantage of by both the government and countless companies across the country. For every one decent CE job, there are 10 bullshit ones. It's just the new JobBridge, where you'd have companies like Tesco hiring "interns" to stock shelves for below minimum wage. But yeah, if you're smart about it and are careful not to fall for any pisstakers, you could definitely use it temporarily to your advantage.


Seen one on indeed last week event chef salary between 22k and 60k I applied for the laugh


Between 22k and 60k,jesus.Bring you into a room when you get the job and spin a big winning streak like wheel to see what you’ll get


https://ie.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=f580e436b781b913&from=serp&prevUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fie.indeed.com%2Fm%2Fjobs%3Fq%3Dchef%26l%3DCork%26ts%3D1635636564998%26pts%3D1632046012946%26rq%3D1%26rsIdx%3D0%26fromage%3Dlast%26newcount%3D46 Here's the link


It’s insulting since when I worked for them doing traffic management I was paid 29 k a year and I had no responsibility


I never respond to job ads that don't show pay, not worth my time


Currently looking for work myself... What sends me up the wall is seeing advertisments for "Executive" positions in whatever, starting at 25k a year... Jobs market outside of Dublin is stupid.


"Excecutive" means "entry level" in every company I've ever worked in. It's usually either standing around trying to upsell auld wans at PC World or a call centre role.


Payroll, maybe. If you have direct guidelines given by superiors then you just throw stuff into a spreadsheet. HR, wouldn't touch for 60 grand. Way too much drama.


I remember a fella telling me he designed websites and also ran a car park. He then told me that they were the same job.


We have a serious issue in Ireland with having multiple roles for one person. My mam moved to NZ this year. She used to work in a very popular department store here as a sales assistant for 10+yrs. Her role included: sales, stock, merchandising, deliveries, cash management, cleaning, fittings, and personal shopping. When she started there these were all individual roles for different people. In her new job in NZ she's also a sales associate, and on her first day she was bored so she asked the manager if they needed some stock counted or anything, and he looked at her like she was mad. He said "you're a sales associate, just ask people if they need help, fold any clothes that have been messed up, and smile at customers". She is soooo happy now and she said they have different people for deliveries, merchandising, etc.


Payroll in a small Company is not a full job, its a couple of days work a month max. So this is unlikely to be multiple roles


Days? Even a decent sized company shouldn’t be more than a few hours a month if you have set things up correctly. The only data that should need entering is the number of hours worked and the number of days holidays taken. If you have that in the right spreadsheet you import directly into payroll software that does all the calculations. Export into the right format for uploading to the online banking so you only have a single authorisation to do. Most people will have emails so you can have your payroll software setup to email the payslips. Most of the work is printing payslips for the few people without emails. Where things fall down is that people are given a ‘role’ but aren’t given the necessary authority needed to do that role efficiently. In the case of payroll your ‘payroll technician’ usually lacks the authority to make the changes needed to speed up the work load. If you have 20 workers and you have to do 20 individual bank transfers for each one then…that consumes time. But banks usually have a facility to do batch transfers which, frankly, is crazy not to be using for something like this. Then you will have workers who are late with their timesheets or whatnot, and the ‘payroll technician’ has no way to get said workers to give the information in on time. HR, as a ‘role’, doesn’t have to be a shitshow. What often happens is that you have people supposed to manage others but without the power of hiring and firing, power of disciplining, etc. all they doing is enforcing some bureaucratic structure that is often divorced from the typical real-world problems. For a person to do HR properly they need to have the requisite authority, and if your first thought is to fear giving over that authority then you need to ask what is the point in having that person in that role?? Giving a person the task of sorting out a rota, for example, when they don’t have the authority to shift people’s hours or hire/fire people is just taking the piss imo. Bonus points for when a poor bastard doing is constantly overruled by management no matter what they do, and the result is a predictable shitshow. Also - why do so many businesses insist on hiring assholes for roles like these? You get a person with the right temperament in the role, and with a bit of cop on, and so many issues don't arise.... It is astounding how many aspects to many jobs can be made significantly more efficient if both the will and permission to do so are present. Between legacy systems that are only used because “that’s how things were always done”, a lack of authority to actually change anything, a lack of initiative (very common), etc., a lot of tasks stagnated to the point of being divorced from its original intended purpose. Payroll is one of many examples. I still struggle to wrap my head around companies that employ third-party companies to do this for them, with all the headaches and cock-ups it brings, when if they made some adjustments to their way of doing thing it should be a 30-minute-a-week maximum.


Yeah ultimately it depends on systems but even in the worst case scenario this isn't close to a full time role as some are suggesting


Payroll and H/R was one job in a place I worked in. She only worked 3.5 days too.


Interesting, why did she move to NZ? I would guess she’s not in her 20’s 30’s - fair play to her.


Her partner of 20 years is from NZ and he got sick of Ireland during the pandemic. Plus his parent's have bad health. However, the rest of the family think they won the lotto


Yep. Every Graphic Design listing I see, in addition to doing labels/logo design/brochures etc. wants you to know how to code in html/css/php/javascript, be a social media marketer, be a photographer/videographer and do video editing and animation. I've even seen a few listed wanting you to be in charge of the payroll so knowing thesarus or sagepay is a "plus" And of course all of these would be under €30k a year.


Yes why do Irish companies think graphic design and web design is the same? Print vs web is so different. And being able to shoot photos/film is a totally different skill set.


I had a work meeting with a group from Microsoft, they asked me to bring along the database administrator, network administrator, senior developer, and project manager for the meeting. I turn up to the meeting on my own and they ask why I didn't bring people from my company for all the roles they requested, they looked very confused when I said I did.


Definitely. I noticed it first in my first restaurant job after living in the US. Over there they have a hostess to seat people, bar staff do the drinks, wait staff run the food, bus boys or girls clear tables. Here one person does all that. And I've seen this same expectation in other places, my current job included.


no, not in a full time position. to do payroll I'm pretty sure you need accounting skills and do hr you need seperate skills. maybe doing just payroll at an entry level job in a small company, 22k yearly is fine, but this is stupid


They want a dogsbody.


That looks like 2 jobs with only 1 pathetic salary on offer


So many jobs have duties and responsibilities that are for more than one person or that couldn’t possibly be carried out by one person efficiently and meet all targets and deadlines. Nearly every role that is advertised will have a line similar to “and other duties/tasks as assigned” which means you can’t say “that’s not my job” because there is that catch all caveat & now that prick of a boss is making it your job. Unions’ hands are therefore tied if someone complains that their work is being taken off them and given to someone else, in fact in this day and age most people would be only delighted that some of their work was being taken off them and given to someone else like if they were on leave so when they come back they’re not facing into a mountain of work that has just been left for them because that work is their job.


I have dealt with total highway maintenance. they are unbearable liars and cunts to deal with. brand new equipment was hired from me and came back completely destoyed and burned to pieces and covered in tar. they told me it was normal wear and tear. took solicitors involvement and months of arguments with them. their safety officer was the guy i had to deal with.. why i dont know. does not surprise me that they are at this kind of shit as well


Paychecks? Prioritizing? What a crappy cut and paste job, they really do need a new HR Admin.


Here's the deal, we'll hire you to do the jobs of two people, but pay you less than the salary of just one of those jobs.


At least you have the salary advertised there.


Someone fresh out of college will look at that and think "that's better than my shitty retail job" and take it with zero problem


Is this the market rate? Or below pay range for such role?


Wouldn't be far off market rate. QQI level 5 in payroll could be done in a couple of months. Still, starting rate should be 25k really.


Get a life .. not a job ..


Belongs in r/recruitinghell as well


I got approached on LinkedIn for "an opportunity i'd be a great fit for". they wanted me to be their IT System Administrator for €30k a year. That's a €40k+ a year role as it is. When i asked why the salary was on the extremely low side for that role they said it's the "going rate". I gave them a five word reply. "good luck filling that position"


they want a slave


They can’t spell companies. Maybe they struggle with numbers too and the salary is much higher? You’re all just to judgemental, guys.




You can't sit at home anymore as far as I know. You have an agent that monitors of your looking for work or not. It's not implemented great at the moment though


They can't even spell companies


They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work.


When they say 'other duties as required' run, just run.


The amount of times I've been asked my salary expectations then me providing and accurate and valid point of a suitable amount basically costs me the position. Companies don't want to hear people who know their worth these days.


I did admin roles for €12 an hour, and the interviewers for the role looked at each other with serious 'oh, we actually have to pay this guy something suitable to live in Dublin now" and seemed shocked. Then their offer was €4k less than that over the year. Rejected them.


I'm a barman and not even management and I'm on higher than this! I don't live in Dublin either.


I've seen that reposted again and again while similar roles start at 30k, you'd think it would dawn on them that they need to offer more.


I'd hope the only people going for this are taking it instead of an internship




Closer to 17k after tax. Considering that you won't get HAP if you are working, if someone has to pay rent out of that 17K you are probably better off on the dole yes


Factor in travelling costs, lunches etc.


Childcare potentially.


You can still work and be on HAP, in Dublin for example the cap is at 35’000 p.a. for singles (at least was back in 2018).




But they are eligible for it




It is actually €19,843.00 according to the deloitte income tax calculator. >Considering that you won't get HAP if you are working, if someone has to pay rent out of that 17K you are probably better off on the dole yes Possibly. But if you want a job, gain experience etc you will get a better paid job over time.


And that's fine, but people deserve to be paid a fair living wage until that happens. 19k isn't that anymore, no matter what part of Ireland you live in


You most definitely will bet Hap only earning that wage


Well the Lighting company has 18 employees and the highway maintenance has 82 as per 2018 accounts..so its 100 employees..its not going to take a full time role to do payroll.. I worked in a company with about 70 employees and an admin person did the payroll which the accountant reviewed and signed off..it probably took a week a month and we used a system where every employee was updated manually.. And how much HR can 100 people generate..maybe about 5 recruitments a year, well being type stuff and appraisals would be the main HR stuff Honestly I would say this would be a relatively easy job...assuming there is an accountantand HR manager too . If they paid much more it wouldn't be worth it to them as outsourcing payroll isn't particularly expensive €25k for a young person with limited experience isn't bad and this is probably the type of person they are looking


Well this makes sense. A lot of comments saying it's a high skill role and should be paying double.....it's not that sort of job and it's not advertised as that either. It's a junior support sort of role, be good for experience, and the job spec is low. It's a stepping stone.


I think the issue here is perspective. If I was a young person out of college, I would do this for a year to gain some good experience and move on to a better job. I see opportunity here.


I'm sure there are plenty of benefits to make up for the low pay... /s


When I see salaries I stop asking myself what's wrong with service quality in Ireland. I'd also hate my job and customers if I was baing paid that much


At least the listed the god awful salary and not say competitive and commensurate to experience


Most of these scam jobs ask for a degree, 2-5 years experience and offer minimum wage. Gtfo


Just been put on the dole after pup ended im on 90 euro a week, Defuq.


Have you just noticed the job market? This is called "entry level" and usually requires 3 years experience and pretty much standard.


Take home pay 382 per week. Dole is 203 I think? And that's just jobseekers, add in all the other benefits and the smart decision is probably Dole life. Similar pay, without the hassle.


Downvote me if you'd like to but if they hire fresh graduates this is a great opportunity for them to learn 2 different areas, and then use this experience as a springboard to much better paying positions.