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pwgmanan

Deleted the link post and posted as image for better visibility and also because saw recent posts asking for a graphic explaining the issues of CAA and NRC


pwgmanan

https://twitter.com/FarOutAkhtar/status/1207143874138910720?s=19 Link to the tweet


spiccato52

And he’s in trouble now because the map doesn’t contain areas of Kashmir. This is the BS we don’t need rn. Every time we try to consolidate a coalition to make some progress, someone(not farhan) slides an extraneous agenda into our protest that breaks said coalition& nothing gets done


vkilewala

This incorrect map shows his true intent. And fu for supporting that. You can’t just sway the narrative your way when He is called out. I’m not gonna let it slip. Bloody liar piece of shit.


Atomrage09

Fuck off, he is actually one of the most sensible Bollywood celebraties out there


spiccato52

No. He has unequivocally said all of Kashmir’s land belongs to India. How tf is he a liar? Those parts of the map in the graphic are so small and shaded on top of that, it can very easily be overlooked. It’s a good excuse for you to dismiss anything that he says and lose your mind over semantics. No- he is not influenced by Naxalism or Maosim. And tbvf from where I stand, you’re the one who seems brainwashed.


vkilewala

That is after the backlash ok, don’t put him up on a pedestal and worship him, being an influencer comes with certain responsibilities, tomorrow if his protests turn violent people will again blame police. Protesting is your right but at least select a leader with integrity and spine.


spiccato52

No one made him a leader. He is a famous person but he’ll be in the protests as a citizen, as will I. It is not unreasonable to put the blame on police if they break into libraries and beat students. The Jamia students who are seen picking up trash after their protests have more moral integrity than every ABVP goon and khakhi chaddi in this country combined.


vkilewala

Wow so much hate, no wonder buses were burnt and stones were pelted on the police. 2 lathi on your bum and you run to your mum. Btw picking up trash or removing evidence ?


spiccato52

Lathi maarne ki baat karte ho, musalmano ko pakistan jaane kehte ho, aur mujhe hateful bol rahe ho. Tikh hai bhai.


vkilewala

Agar tum rioter ho, aag lagate ho, to beshak lath khana chahiye, police se pehle tumahre maa bap ko tumhein joote marne chahiye. Pakistan mat ja mere bhai lekin apne desh ko toh mat jala.


haneef4

Modi being biggest influencer: Aage lagane walon ko kapde se pehchano. Would you reject our PM for such a bigot comment?


vkilewala

It takes courage to speak and digest such inconvenient truth. At least he didn’t backtrack. Sad but true, you really could identify the rioters by their clothing.


Mayank_j

Doosre sub se aaya mera dost! Dost ko salaam karo


vkilewala

Tera yahi kam hai kya, chowkidar hai kya tu ?


hi_silentguy

He didn't backtrack? This guy is funny, when and where your next performance bro?!


hi_silentguy

Hi bud, why only 3 neighbouring countries, what're the rest of the minorities from the rest of the subcontinent done to you that you don't want to include them? Why is your beloved Supreme Leader not answering this question?


Android551

You need to add the burning question too. Why do they care about only three Muslim majority countries. This question is very very important. Amit Sah and bjp is dodging this question. It is selected very carefully so that they can say they are doing what they are doing because Muslims are in majority in these countries.


[deleted]

I'm no good at graphic design, but here's a starter in PDF, DOCX and ODT stating all the *factual* problems of CAA as one-liners. Hopefully, a good designer here can make use of it. [https://filebin.net/i22drunm90sxua44](https://filebin.net/i22drunm90sxua44) NRC-CAA has its own problems but its more difficult to explain because a lot of it is speculative. IMO CAA itself has enough problems that a repeal of it should be an immediate and possibly more communicable goal of the protests. These problems can even silence the right wing because it does **not** protect even hindu persecuted refugees selected arbitrarily based on a date and location.


foreverall1

The bhakts desperation to deflect in the comments is typically pathetic.


Muu-dzic

It fills me with so much rage to see all the abuses and crap on his comments! How do you guys deal with all the anger, i might need therapy now.


foreverall1

Secret to staying sane is never joining Twitter. It's mostly full of bots and paid trolls any way.


adork_filter

Well not entirely paid trolls. I know real people who are happy doing this without any monetary benefit. Some people in our country are sick with hate towards Muslims and Pakistan.


hi_silentguy

Man I know a few of them. I shiver every time they open their mouth to talk.


cosmogli

Sadly, you must persist. That's what they want you to do. Give up and stay silent, while they spread their message and recruit even more to their cause. I know it's frustrating. Take a break if you want, but come back soon.


KorladisPurake

>How do you guys deal with all the anger 1. Kit-kats 2. Unleash a flurry of slurs on sanghis when you see another one of their extremist comments. Call them names to flex your vocab. They're already convinced that we're their enemies and Islamic bootlickers. No point in arguing with such people.


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[deleted]

Here's another: Sandeep Mittal, IPS (@smittal_ips) Tweeted: देश में खौफ पैदा करने वाली नक्सलवादियों और जिहादियों की संयुक्त साजिश का दमन करने में दिल्ली पुलिस के हर प्रयास में भारत का हर नागरिक साथ खड़ा है। देशद्रोही तत्वों को जल्दी से जल्दी पहचान कर उनके विरुद्ध संवैधानिक कार्यवाही की जाएगी, ऐसा देश का हर नागरिक विश्वास रखता है। #CAA https://twitter.com/smittal_ips/status/1206286046524104704?s=20


Maulik456

I'm not that good at Hindi, Could someone please translate it for me?


Vet24

Every Indian citizen stands behind Delhi police’s attempt at neutralising the joint conspiracy of fear mongering Naxalites and Jihadis. Anti-national elements will be identified as soon as possible and a constitutional action will be taken against them. This is a belief of every citizen of the country.


minusSeven

Does disagreement on certain point or having an unpopular opinion make me a Bhakt ? If so I guess I am one.


foreverall1

The idiots in the comments are literally deflecting from his argument and not engaging with the main argument AT ALL. If you want to count yourself among them go ahead.


[deleted]

This is the biggest problem. People aren't ready to listen to any facts and if you keep presenting them with credible sources they just keep deflecting more but they still won't stop bleating about "facts". Someone actually linked GOI websites to me as credible sources of why certain things are happening. It's extremely annoying. People are conveniently choosing to ignore the political history of Shah and Modi. Turning a blind eye to everything.


foreverall1

Right? How are these people totally okay with a CAB being passed when an NRC is planeed but we havent even been given a cutoff date for proving citizenship. Are these people blind? They are totally okay with Govt introducing some arbitrary date from 1950s?


KorladisPurake

No. Being a HindutvaShit makes you a bhakt. >Does disagreement on certain point or having an unpopular opinion I like how you call FarRight ideas as "having an unpopular opinion". Accept it. You're filled with hate. (and so am I) Do try to ease the burden you cause on the earth with some kindness and humanity. Swan dives are quite elegant btw.


minusSeven

I am not far right not even close, but right now having an unpopular opinion is being branded the same. I guess at this point I should try to avoid having unpopular opinion (even if I defend them with facts). Apparently there is no middle ground, either you agree with what everyone else believes or you are "far right".


ThatFag

Chal na be lowdou, don't act like they're arguing in good faith.


[deleted]

Can someone confirm if the facts mentioned here are actually facts or just hearsay? Especially the line on Indian Muslims being stateless. Would that not apply to any religion if they can't provide documentary evidence?


sagarjadhav520

Yeah, that's where citizenship amendment act becomes a loophole. Every other religion automatically gains citizenship from CAA.


chavithi_chandrudu

Isn't CAA applicable to to 3 nations? So if I fail to prove my citizenship, shouldn't I be providing evidence that I am from pak or Bangladesh or Afghanistan to be eligible for CAA?


Fraser_vk

This. I know what Amit Shah said but the law does not say that(afaik). I feel like this inconsistency could be taken advantage of by the bhakts who deem us fearmongers.


kkultimate

Ye dekhle bhai what amit shah has to say about it [https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/ec99c0/here\_is\_our\_home\_minister\_clearly\_saying\_that\_all/?utm\_medium=android\_app&utm\_source=share](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/ec99c0/here_is_our_home_minister_clearly_saying_that_all/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)


chavithi_chandrudu

That's a 3 second clip. Bhakts will simply say that it is taken out of context. Do you have a better proof? Because saying that you don't need proof of being a pakistani Or bangaldeshi for CAB to apply is a bit of a leap.


kkultimate

If you went through the thread you would have seen that the source is already there , and also context behind the comment


redditnachotacos

https://youtu.be/k8-R4DOze_g


gujjuben

See here on what HM is saying about proof needed for exempted religions. https://twitter.com/dillidurast/status/1207191726785323008


sparoc3

Wow what BS. Someone will just say they aren't Muslim. Maybe that what he's counting on all along. People will identify themselves as non-Muslims and just like that they won't be muslims and Indian citizen, free to profess any religion other than Islam . Forgive me but that's actually a masterstroke. And fuckin illegal. They are making the law and before it even comes in force they are violating it.


[deleted]

They'd be more than happy if people identify themselves as Hindu and forego their religion. They want votes and this is how they're choosing to secure a votebank.


apadipodu

https://i.redd.it/25rc0nfj1d541.jpg


unernamedoesexist

The thing is SC won't do shit to CAA and as there is no bill tabled no one knows what will be criteria for NRC or what be conditions for it. As there is nothing that this bill violates constitution the government will get a free pass here but when NRC is announced then only something could be done about it which maybe the next session of parliament.


Axerin

Another thing that people don't seem to be talking about much is that, just because Hindus, Sikhs etc can be granted citizenship, doesn't mean that the process will be immediate/instantaneous. They will have also to go through the humiliation of being branded as illegal immigrants in their own country, probably also lose their jobs, voting rights etc for a duration. There is also a possibility that they can also be sent to detention centres, and will likely have to rove they are refugees (which they won't be if they aren't really refugees but citizens of India). Why should anybody have to go through this madness of being treated like a foreigner in their own country. This is an absolute cluster fuck.


[deleted]

https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/ec99c0/here_is_our_home_minister_clearly_saying_that_all/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


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[deleted]

And at the same time PM Jay Shah will dare congress to give citizenship to every Martian


rakeshsh

This is the biggest fear I have, if we ever let this CAA be reality and keep silence then one day this party will introduce another bill that will target rest religions (Christians, Buddhists and so on) Protest now! Oppose CAA NRC!


vivek_17

In CAB which countries are included in "neighboring" countries list?


sparoc3

Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. All Muslim majority countries, cuz only Muslims can be oppresser and they can't be persecuted.


vivek_17

Exactly my point. I don't see how Muslims can be given amnesty in this Bill. It's like saying a bill for Syrian refugees is discriminatory against Iraqis. Does not make much sense. That being said, the bill is still in very bad taste and should not have been proposed.


gujjuben

The point is whether "we should give refugee to minorities in these three countries" an objective and acceptable criteria to begin with? If its for neighbouring countries, then include all neighbouring countries. If its about persecuted minorites in these countries, then include for minorities in all these countries. The selective pick and choose is "arbitrary" in the sense that it does not meet one consistent criteria. Though we all know that it is not arbitrary as it is designed specifically to keep one community out. And hence it goes one step further and makes it divisive.


vivek_17

Yeah. For eg it ignores the plight of Rohingya muslims in Myanmar, which is also a neighboring country.


sparoc3

You don't see it cuz you are not aware of shit. There are various sects of Muslims(Ahmediyas, Baluchis) who are persecuted in Pakistan. UN has declared Rohingyas as the most persecuted community in the world. What about Uighyur Muslims being used for organ harvesting? We share borders with China don't we? Why does the bill need to be specifically for religious persecution? Why not include all persecution be religious or ethnic like the ones faced by Sri Lankan Tamils? Because they are furthering an agenda, a dangerous agenda. Did you fuckin miss the sarcasm in my previous post, are you really that dense?


adhi1994

The Baloch arent a religious minority, they are an ethnic group who are Sunni Muslims, some of whom happen to be revolting against the Paki establishment. There is no evidence to prove that Uyghur Muslims are being "used" for organ harvesting.


sparoc3

That's exactly the point, people can be persecuted ethnically(and other grounds) as well. Why is CAA bringing religion in to this at all? ​ >There is no evidence to prove that Uyghur Muslims are being "used" for organ harvesting. [https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9](https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9) [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-religious-ethnic-minorities-uighur-muslim-harvest-organs-un-human-rights-a9117911.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-religious-ethnic-minorities-uighur-muslim-harvest-organs-un-human-rights-a9117911.html) [https://bylinetimes.com/2019/11/26/more-uyghur-horror-harvesting-hundreds-of-thousands-of-organs-from-mass-murder/](https://bylinetimes.com/2019/11/26/more-uyghur-horror-harvesting-hundreds-of-thousands-of-organs-from-mass-murder/) [https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/from-cultural-persecution-to-illegal-organ-harvesting-in-xinjiang-why-is-muslim-world-silent-57403/](https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/from-cultural-persecution-to-illegal-organ-harvesting-in-xinjiang-why-is-muslim-world-silent-57403/) No evidence at all.


adhi1994

Because those Hindus, Christians, etc... were being targeted because they were by definition Kaffirs. There are other types of persecution, sure, but these people, people who were targeted for not being Muslim fled to India to escape religious persecution from their Muslim oppressors. Therefore for those 30,000 odd people who come under the ambit of the CAB, the reason for their persecution, which was their religion, was the basis of the reasonable classification made under article 14. The UNHRC was told this by activists who live outside China there is still mo actual evidence of this. There have been reports about organ harvesting from against followers of Falun Gong, but then again it hasn't been proven.


sparoc3

Not reasonable. I could argue the same for ethnic people that they are being persecuted because of (not) being a certain ethnicity. Where's the amendment for saving those ethnically minority community?


vivek_17

I did miss your sarcasm because your english is not as good as you think it is. Your lack of civility aside, I do agree and also disagree with you. I agree with you that selectively picking countries where muslims are not the oppressed minorities is wrong. Case in point, the Rohingyas from neighboring Myanmar. I disagree with you in the take everyone or leave everyone mentality. If you, for one second, ignore the religious discrimination aspect of the bill, then you will see that it is always better to help some people than help no one at all. I honestly think that India does not have the resources to take in every oppressed group from every neighboring country. But to help no one because of that, that is up for debate. Though knowing Modi, I am pretty sure he has no intent to help anyone. The bill is designed to divide country on religious lines, gain Hindu majority vote and shift focus from our woeful economy. I know I won't be voting for Modi next time.


sparoc3

Haan theek hai bhai aage badh, demonetization ke baad bhi usko vote dene wale sab chutiye hi hai . Tujhe usse kya, tujhe to wo baat sahi lage k Muslims can be oppressors only, but can never be oppressed. Sect or religion me fark pata nahi. Ethnicity kya hoti hai pata nahi, sarcasm kya hota hai pata nahi aur discrimination kya hota hai pata nahi. Phir bolte Samnewali ki angrezi kamzor hai. Maybe your understanding is weak, but naah bhakt ko kabhi khud ki galti nahi dikhti, galat saamne wala hi hai.


kartiyk

Again, you are dividing a category to present it as a minority. Ahemadiyas are still a part of islam. It's their internal struggle. To all the states protesting against this, if we accept to include all existing refugees, I am waiting to watch which state will open xtend its arm and welcome them. Their true color of secularism will be thrown under spotlight when each state invoke economic and cultural reasons.. Also if you think the NRC terms for the whole of India (if done) will be the same as ASSAM then you are a fearmonger driven by a political agenda.


sparoc3

Either take everyone or don't take anyone at all. Constitution guarantees against discrimination on the grounds of race, caste , sex , religion and place of birth. This is blatant discrimination against muslims, and migrants who are persecuted in other countries not specified in CAA. No state wants to get any migrants period. It's not like they are welcoming of non-Muslims. NRC invalidated any documents after 1971, we don't know what the cut-off date will be for national NRC but there hasn't been any major influx of illegal migrants other than some key events like partition and creation of Bangladesh and Rohingya crisis. Who knows what the baseline event for the cut-off date will be. There's absolutely no need for such a futile nationwide exercise. And you bet your top dollar NRC is coming , BJP will make that happen.


kartiyk

Edit: constitution guarantees the right for it's citizens in it's territory and not someone outside of it's boundaries.


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**Constitution of India** The Constitution of India (IAST: Bhāratīya Saṃvidhāna) is the supreme law of India. The document lays down the framework demarcating fundamental political code, structure, procedures, powers, and duties of government institutions and sets out fundamental rights, directive principles, and the duties of citizens. It is the longest written constitution of any country on earth. B. R. Ambedkar, chairman of the drafting committee, is widely considered to be its chief architect.It imparts constitutional supremacy (not parliamentary supremacy, since it was created by a constituent assembly rather than Parliament) and was adopted by its people with a declaration in its preamble. *** **States and union territories of India** India is a federal union comprising 28 states and 9 union territories, for a total of 37 entities. The states and union territories are further subdivided into districts and smaller administrative divisions. *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/india/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28


sparoc3

Art 14. Equality before law >The State shall not deny to any person equality before the law or the equal protection of the laws within the territory of India Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth illegal migrants are in the territory of India. Any law dealing with them cannot be discriminatory on the above mentioned grounds. On a cursory glance anyone will tell CAA is discriminatory on both grounds of religion and place of birth.


kartiyk

Again, you are twisting the two terms refugees and illegal migrants. CAA deals with potential legal refugees and not illegals. Again what a country decides to do with foriegn illegals is its own policy decision.


sparoc3

listen here buddy. India is not a party to any UN convention regarding refugees, nor does it have any legislative procedure to classify people as refugee. It has foreigners act and any one who enters the country illegally or have overstayed their visa duration is an illegal migrant. There is no term such as refugee as far as Indian law is concerned. Both have the same meaning in Indian context. I know people are not expected to know all the laws of the country but that ignorance should come with any facade of knowledge regarding the same. An illegal migrant or a "refugee" can never ever apply for citizenship, only a legal migrant can. CAA essentially turns a host of illegal migrant into legal ones. But it does it on a discriminatory basis.


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revolution110

Problem is BJP is not giving clarity on what documents one needs to show to get citizenship through inspite of repeated questioning. Can one simply submit an affidavit stating that they are a hindu from pakistan and get our citizenship or one would have to show pakistani passport or some other signifcant proof of pakistani nationality to claim citizenship?


YoureEntitledToYours

Who is this IPS Officer Sandeep Mittal? Looks like he's retired because he absolutely does not have fitness levels to be a serving officer, neither does he abide by any code of conduct.


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kingclubs

Tamil Hindus are not included as well


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adhi1994

Most of the Hindus escaping persecution from Pakistan and Bangladesh are Hindu Dalits. You know, the same people who are clubbed with Muslims, by every left leaning politician or activist as being a united front against Hindu tyranny and whatnot. I have disagreements with the NRC,but this poster is trash


unique_uday

The act don't take away the rights of existing people in India and I don't get why everyone don't think so! I'm not a Hindu and I don't even care for religion but don't get why everyone is supporting the riots when Muslims in West Bengal are throwing rocks at trains and people and destroying stations!!


falconSB

Geez, look at those Twitter replies. IPS is also replying saying you will face charges for misinforming people.


Skrtskrtyeetyoot

Wait a min, my mom hasn't been in contact with her family since the 90s so she can't really prove that she has family living since before 1971. Are we in trouble? My dad is foreign


dury_dury

Use correct map of India.


m2phark

Forgive me for being naive.. but can someone explain how does this affect existing citizens of the country.. unless NRC is extended to whole of India..?? I find this post to be a little exaggerated ... Even if NRC IS extended how will that affect existing citizens with Indian passport.. aadhar ration card etc .??


cakesarelies

You'll have to prove that you were in India before 1971. Not born before 1971? Prove your parents were in India before 1971 because India gives citizenship if one of the parents is Indian. Parents not born before 1971? Prove that your grandparents were around before 1971. Worse if you're a woman. Women usually didn't own land back then and changed names after marriage, so you'd need to go through all that shit to be a citizen. At least that's my understanding of it.


amancxz2

The date of 1971 is specific for assam only because of the assam accord, we don't have any information on the specifics of nationwide NRC so 1971 as a cutoff date is factually incorrect, so stop spreading misinformation.


cakesarelies

So cutoff date for the version of the law that already exists as I stated is now not factual. Ok.


amancxz2

It is not correct for the nationwide NRC.


cakesarelies

Also the Assam accord was signed in 1985 you fucking moron.


amancxz2

I never stated it wasn't signed in 1985. Assam accord point number 5.8 - "Foreigners who came to Assam on or after March 25, 1971 shall continue to be detected, deleted and practical steps shall be taken to expel such foreigners." This is why the year 1971 is selected for assam NRC, the date comes from the assam accord you moron.


m2phark

Is that a fact...?? I was of the opinion this was implemented in Assam for stemming the flow of illegal immigrants.. can you point me to some sources where it mentions this is planned to be implemented Pan India..?? I am guessing Citizenship amendment Bill is for people from other countries seeking asylum.. which specifically doesn't include Muslims.. of the top of my head I can see national security as a reason.. since Pakistan you know.. But i am still confused as to why this much uproar for a fairly straitforward bill... Is this a side effect of Modi hate..?? Or id there any valid concerns for this ?? Other than hypothetical scenarios.. i dont want to base my opinions about a goverment based on hypotheticals and what ifs.. I am all ears for some facts and rational thinking.. please help me..


linkinpieces

A lot of people have similar doubts, I hope you use this to clear others myths. BJP wants NRC + CAB to be nationwide https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1204981220330749954/pu/vid/640x350/P3W92AVF8juFl0Th.mp4?tag=10


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nonmathew

Kunal447, beta think of this like this. When nrc is implemented like it was done in Assam and if the poor or some unfortunate person doesn't have his family's documents dated before 1971, then he/she will be rendered stateless. Scary? Yes. NOW THE SECOND PART OF THIS DEBATE. You say both the bills are unrelated, even then when you use religion as a criteria for persecution or citizenship it is unconstitutional and against the secular fabric of this country. Either accept people irrespective of their religion if they can prove they are persecuted or don't accept anyone at all. Yeh basic VOTE BANK politics hai jo bjp khel rhi hai, iska samarthan koi kyo kare. When none of this would improve anything and doesn't actually does anything to boost this country or it's economy.


[deleted]

will hindus be given citizenship without document in NRC ?


nonmathew

No my mahnn, Indians living in this country will be deemed stateless because they don't have documents irrespective of religion while outsiders will become Indians because of their religion. Come to think of it, every Indian must be opposed to the CAA and NRC.


[deleted]

But the documents needed for nrc aren't even announced yet? Why is everyone assuming it will be same as assam


nonmathew

Remember, how CAA was passed even without taking into consideration what the public wanted, tomorrow if NRC is formulated and passed in a day (this government has a history of doing that), it will be too late. And also because CAA is non secular, illogical and not needed.


kartiyk

Why would you assume 1971 would be the cut off date for the rest of India?


nonmathew

Let's say they put some date like 2014 for cut off for NRC, even then the marginalised and poor people will be the most affected.


kartiyk

But how do you fix a system? No matter what any govt does someone is going to be unhappy and affected. You either progress or stagnate and stink.


nonmathew

And you think NRC will help us grow. You make a law in haste and then you yourself create ambiguity among the masses(I mean if you've seen interviews by bjp politicians relating to CAB and NRC, then you'll know). You divide the country on religious lines and justify it by saying it's for our country's betterment. Then you call protestors terrorists so that they are dehumanized, then general masses call them anti nationals. The country needs sound economic policies, not another jhumla like demonitisation.


kartiyk

Doesn't answer my question. All we do is critique and play safe with every policy decision hoping no one will get offended.. Tbh I don't even want to argue as this would never lead to a progressive discussion which discusses the merits and demerits equally. Peace!


nonmathew

Your question was how do we fix a system? The answer is there is no objective way to fix it. Take the most logical recourse and you will find that not many people share your views. There's a need in our society now to progress, and build a better nation. Lazy decision making without much thought has brought us here, it's high time we look around us and understand what we actually need.


shash747

> And NO criteria yet decided. The people don't trust the govt to implement reasonable criterion. Thus the protests.


Sonixdragon

Lmao JnK and ladakh are shown as part of India whereas area under Pakistan and China isn’t. You learn the map!


aka5h8

This is just so so wrong. A little research on the topic never hurts.


[deleted]

Seens like you have done research so can you tell what's wrong in it?


dusrathrowaway

I have seen this in every post on this subject. They say it's misinformation, they say it's wrong. They say it's propoganda. No one backs it up and explains their point. What's this bullshit. It's driving me crazy


[deleted]

Every bhakt is like they're not going to ask ancestor documents, they're helping people who are discriminated in other countries I don't know what kind of delusion they're living in. Even for a moment if we believe above points are right then also who wants to face situation like demonetization where we have to stand in queue to get our documents verified? Don't we have other important issues to address. Why don't people understand that the NRC is wrong on every level


chillipowder01

That’s bhakt reasoning for you. Facts and evidence don’t exist in their world.


aka5h8

CAA is an inclusion act not an exclusion act, this probably being the very fundamental thing that’s interpreted the wrong way. It includes minorities of just THREE countries and the clause changed the aggregate period of residence in India from a minimum of 11 years to a minimum of 5 years. This does not means Muslims refugees from these countries just can’t get citizenship. They just need to follow the previously set rules and these minorities are given a slight advantage. And NRC will not be implemented the exact same way as Assam. The cutoff date will not be 24 March, 1971 because this date was for Assam as per “Assam accord, 1985”. As per the citizen Amendment act of 2004, anyone who is born on or after 2004 will be an Indian citizen by birth if both his/her parents are citizen of India. And CAA 2019 will not provide citizenship to Hindus,Buddhists,Sikhs etc if they are excluded from NRC because CAA 2019 specifically states the citizenship to be provided to any person belonging to Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain,Parsi or Christian from Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan. No where is it mentioned that If someone fails to provide documents during NRC will just be given citizenship based on religion. We do give special provisions to minorities in our country whether it be via reservation on the basis of caste or tribe or even gender. This is to protect and provide upliftment to these minorities. The same is being done for the refugees. Why is it wrong here?


the_storm_rider

Things no one is able to answer: 1. Why only three countries? If a Muslim from Myanmar wants to come to India because of religious persecution, is he inferior to a Hindu from Pakistan? 2. Why is this more important than the economy going into recession? 3. Why has this taken priority over digital India, make in India, infrastructure and all other development that this bullshit gormint promised when it came to power? 4. What did our glorious leader mean by "you can identify people by their clothes?" Has he become so confident now that he can openly flaunt his communalist mindset in a secular nation? 5. After the gargantuan fuck-up in Assam where even legitimate citizens were excluded from the list, what fucking guarantee is there that tomorrow you and I will not be excluded because some babu missed his tea break and was in a bad mood, or because he didn't get his bribe? Not sure what you're trying to defend, we all know what this bill is intended to do why the gormint is giving this more priority than it ever gave to actual development of the country. Don't worry, when the NRC babu comes for you and you don't have a document proving that the neanderthals who migrated here during the Triassic era were your cousins, then you'll realize what the rest of the country is so agitated about.


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entirepolscience

All that happens when you have accepted them as refugees, and you asked for legal documenation at the influx point. But given in India you can't be a refugee (coz india is not a signatory to un accord) you are either an illegal migrant or you end up as a citizen. So here the illegal migrants will only have bare minimum requirement of proof.


OriginalCj5

>A Pakistani Hindu would have to prove that he is from Pakistan. Umm, no! The Home Minister clearly says the opposite here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/ec99c0/here\_is\_our\_home\_minister\_clearly\_saying\_that\_all/?utm\_medium=android\_app&utm\_source=share](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/ec99c0/here_is_our_home_minister_clearly_saying_that_all/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)


[deleted]

Why special treatment to only non Muslims? A person will immigrate because he's facing problems in his own country, so why exclude Muslims?


One-in-Million

Because CAA provide path to Indian citizenship for persecuted religious minorities from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan. All three mentioned countries are Islamic countries, then how come a Muslim person will be a Immigrant because of religious persecution?


aka5h8

Why special treatment to schedule caste or tribes? Because they are minorities in that particular area. They need some of those privileges. Bangladesh Afghanistan and Pakistan have Islamic constitutionalists, whereas other countries have secular constitution protecting rights of every religion whereas the same can not be said in these countries. And to answer other questions, government is probably working on details on how can a person prove his country of origin, the cutoff date will be provided as per Part 2 of our constitution please give it a look and that’ll probably clear some doubts. Edit: And people don’t just immigrate from Pakistan to India because “they’re facing trouble in their country”. I’m sure we all can agree on this.


chicaslim

Because there are just too many??? I know this is fucked up but isn't that the truth??


foreverall1

So what will the cut off date be? Why is the govt not clarifying this?


pronoob_101

This is very aptly put forward. The application of CAA will not be the same way it is applied in Assam. The reason the govt has not clarified because they might as well be planning details etc.


parekh07

[go on](https://cab.getfacts.in/)


fools_eye

If you think this isn't the end goal, I have a tower in Paris I'd like to sell you.


sicaniv

Dont sell just rent it. :)


chillipowder01

In what way is it wrong? Do let us know please.


sucker_pun

The government of a secular country has no business making laws that apply based on religious grounds. The concept of separation of church and state is completely violated by this law. The state has no business addressing a citizen on religious grounds except in the case of subjects under the ambit of religious laws like hindu law and muslim law which are governing laws for inheritance, marriage etc. That breach of separation between religion and state alone is reason enough to eliminate this trash.


louis_pasteur

Parts about NRC are speculative. Things like everyone have to prove their ancestry by giving pre-1971 certificates is hogwash, it'll be an implementation nightmare and nobody has conformed that it'll be implemented that way. Why raise blood pressure over something that is far into the future and speculative?


the_storm_rider

Because when it actually happens and you are asked to get a document from 12000 BC in 2 days or go to jail, you don't want to shit your pants at that time. We have seen how it was done in Assam where legitimate citizens were excluded from the list even after giving all documents. We all know how this gormint said demonetization will only impact people for 2 weeks and then they are still cleaning up the shit after 2 years. Kashmir internet ban looks more or less permanent. In other words, these people can't tie their own shoelaces, now they want to implement an exercise that requires god-level organization and effort. We want to be prepared now before they start swinging shit all over the place, that's all that's happening.


[deleted]

It's better oppose it before it happens


throwrandomnow

Khula challenge I will pay 5k if you can prove that you don't have a facist agenda


aka5h8

[Give this a read and you’ll probably get an understanding of what fascism actually is about. ](https://imgur.com/a/TP8HD7H) Just because of the political inclination of our current government is towards right doesn’t make it a fascist regime. Just because it satisfies one of the above mentioned criteria doesn’t make it fascist. Just because it has taken the nationalism stance to an extreme doesn’t make it fascist. And Hitler came into power in 1933, and the fascism was evident ever since he took power. Modi has been in power since 2014 and still there exist an opposition, a sustainable military, everyone still enjoys the rights granted under constitution. Supreme Court is still out defending the constitution whenever necessary. I guess this proves why this is not a fascist agenda.


Newbarbarian13

> Hitler came into power in 1933, and the fascism was evident ever since he took power. This is factually incorrect. Hitler came into power as a *national socialist*, because nobody would ever vote for an autocrat to come into power. The Nazis consolidated their power by slowly chipping away at institutions that Germany held in high regard, such as the arts (similar in India), education (similar in India), and distracting people from the woeful economic situation by blaming minorities (sound familiar?). By the time Germany was governed by a fascist government, it was too late for them to go back. So no, you're chatting absolute hogwash, and the Modi government displays clear signs of following this roadmap towards control and nationalism.


skyw47ker

No! The fascist regime in Germany was implemented one step at a time. Here is an excerpt from the book “They thought they were free”, which covers interviews of Germans/ex-Nazis after the war. https://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html


thehro

Please explain how it's wrong I beg you. You can pm me if you want.


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private_unlimited

What about NRC?


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tamz_msc

"No one can be removed from NRC" - are you honestly unaware of what happened in Assam or are you deliberately peddling lies?


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U say no citizens will be affected by NRC then what happens to those who will not be able to prove documents dating before 1971?


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To hindu illegal nahi ho sakte kya? Unko kahe rakh rahe ho


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