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JackAss77776

Damn I’m jealous of Turkey, I wish if my country had an Ataturk


onurreyiz_35

Where are you from ?


JackAss77776

Saudi Arabia :(


mephistotles

Damn buddy ;-;


JackAss77776

At least I’m not from Afghanistan, Iraq or Somalia


whygeorgie

How is life in Saudi Arabia? It usually scares me whenever I read news from there when it's religion tagged. I live in a secular state where Syariah law is imposed among the people born as a Muslim by birth registration. It sucks either, but at least I can still dress as I want and not get lynched. I hate my country too. I am still thinking of the best country that can accept a normal human being who just wants to live outside the religious monitoring and laws.


JackAss77776

It’s the definition of shithole No dating or sex before marriage, you can’t even touch the hand of opposite sex No alcohol or pork Saudi women are forced to wear veil and they are treated as sex object and maids Misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia and all other forms of hate speech are very normalize and common People can’t stop talking about Islam and they will force it to your throat You can marry up to 4 wives, you can beat them and rape them too Child rape and incest is very normalized and common Tv shows, animes, movies and video games are always censored and dozens of them are banned for very ridiculous reasons Homosexuality, leaving islam and criticizing Islam are crime and they punishable by beheading People here are braindead, hateful, very conservative and religious, they are so brainwashed and debating them is the same as debating a brick You can enslave foreigner workers There’s no privacy You can’t criticize the government or protest Parents are very restricted and abusive I’m currently using VPN for my safety and I hope I will immigrate to a secular country, I’m sick of living in this hell but it looks like it will take me decades to leave this country because of my very low wage and high debts also I’m a low skilled person so immigration would be tough


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JackAss77776

Thanks habibi


whygeorgie

I feel sad to hear that. It's a bit like here, except that we are still governed by secular law and there's still tiny bit level of tolerance. Since you have to resort to vpn... Please stay safe.


Moonlight102

> Saudi women are forced to wear veil and they are treated as sex object and maids > You can marry up to 4 wives, you can beat them and rape them too > Child rape and incest is very normalized and common Didnt saudi arabia raise the age one can get married to 18 and that by law women can choose to remove the hijab? Also isnt rape like a death penalty in saudi arabia?


bajanbiker47

I been on tinder in ksa and a lot of transwomen on there, how are they still living if these rules are real? Also there is a gay Saudi prince, saw him on IG few months ago. I think he's being bit over exaggerating.


fariborzzak1341

Saudi Arabia is USA wonderful friend .


fariborzzak1341

Saudi Arabia is USA wonderful buddy frined.


mephistotles

Hope you leave someday bestie.


[deleted]

Same, I’m from the same jackass country as you!


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[deleted]

I never lost hope, I made a solemn promise to NEVER commit suicide or ever give up my plan of fleeing to the US or Canada by seeking asylum on a tourist visa.


crossonhilldesert

You have Mohammed bin Salman in Saudi Arabia. He is modernizing your country & has already said that stoning is not a part of Islam, & that Saudi not practice hudud laws which aren’t derived from the Quran. So be optimistic, he might be the Ataturk or Saudi, or you can say AtaSaudi


[deleted]

That guy’s a shady bastard, he killed a Saudi man in Turkey for criticizing Saudi Arabia


crossonhilldesert

Ataturk also killed a lot of rebels


[deleted]

Ataturk wasn’t on Islam’s side, Muhammad Bin Fatman is pretty religious


crossonhilldesert

Did you see his interview with Al-Arabiya news? He literally wants to get rid of the Sharia punishments like stoning adulterers, he criticised hadiths and said that they are going to get rid of 90% of hadiths.


Moonlight102

> he criticised hadiths and said that they are going to get rid of 90% of hadiths. No he didn't he said the laws of iscountry will only involve rulings that come from mutawattir hadiths meaning hadiths which are sahih.


Moonlight102

> You have Mohammed bin Salman in Saudi Arabia. He is modernizing your country & has already said that stoning is not a part of Islam, & that Saudi not practice hudud laws which aren’t derived from the Quran. So be optimistic, he might be the Ataturk or Saudi, or you can say AtaSaudi He didnt say he would remove stoning as its apart of the hudood laws?


Gloomy-Literature444

Tough luck.... Because of being from momo's own land i don't think you'll ever get your version of Ataturk


[deleted]

Your country is getting better in religious issues and you are not broke like us. You will probably end up way better than us👍🏻


JackAss77776

Nah, our people are still living in 7th century and we still have 7th century laws The only differences between Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia is that our country is stable and isn’t poor


Reddubsss

Yknow us Turks are going thru a lot nowadays and feel generally hopeless but Saudi Arabia is something else dude, not comparable at all


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JackAss77776

I know that Turks hate Arabs but I have respect for Turks for being secular unlike other middle eastern countries Teşekkürler Atatürk 🙏


_morbius

we dont hate arabs. we hate arabs who wants to pull us into the shithole they are in


Key1oo

No, I’m from turkey and we hate Araps a lot, they destroyed our country.


________name________

I think the Arabs you are talking about are Syrian and Afghan refugees. Because Saudis aren't really a hot topic right now. Sure people dislike them but I don't think anyone would hate an individual just because they are Arab. It's just that people have a prejudice that Arabs are extremist and ill-mannered.


Key1oo

> It's just that people have a prejudice that Arabs are extremist and ill-mannered. But Arabs are extremists and ill-mannered


________name________

Not all of them obviously. For example the original commenter on this thread.


Key1oo

99,99% of them are like this


________name________

Still doesn't justify you spewing hate under the comment of a decent Arab.


GetOutOfMyFeedNow

Be sensible kankacım. No hate speech.


Gorunmez_Put_allah

I'm from Turkey and i can say we don't have any personal hate for arabs. In daily life we use "arab" word to criticize islam. Here is a word Ataturk said to criticize islam: "(islam is) arab bullshit that said have been descended from the sky" so hate is not to persons but to the religion that caused our nations to drown in the swamp. Also instead of "allah" i myself prefer to say "invisible arabic IDOL" !!! but here again nothing personel to arab peoples. At the end we all are suffering from that religion.


throw_away49294829

Thanks, he would be sad if he saw our situation here.


Phantombiceps

for Indonesia, formerly the most liberal large muslim majority country, and an officially secular country with India in its name, to be the same color as egypt and malaysia is absolutely terrifying.


whygeorgie

I'm speechless to see the result too. Indonesia is way more liberal than Malaysia. I feel sad to see the result in Malaysia. Did the poll even ask the non-Muslims?


XiaoXiongMao23

>Did the poll even ask the non-Muslims? No, the image clearly states that only Muslims were surveyed. Which makes sense. What non-Muslim is going to want another religion’s laws?


whygeorgie

Oh my bad 👀, didn't read that clearly.


DrBubbles4

to be fair i feel like these results aren't too accurate. Even though egypt is pretty conservative as a nation we're undergoing a period of secularization. I wouldn't say 70% support sharia, and the number is definitely declining even if that statistic is true now.


Comrade_Harold

Indonesian here to give some insight,while yes there's a large portion of the population who is very islamic,i think there's still a lot more of the moderate muslims here than the poll must've shown and more so than that i see muslims that are muslims who pray and read quran every so often but other than that doesnt really make islam their life. it also depends a lot on the region i think, muslims in java is (relatively speaking) different and more moderate than muslims in a region like aceh (although after the 212 movement there is a real slide to the right,see december 2016 jakarta protest for more context).And politically speaking i dont see much probability of sharia law being implemented, we have a very strong islamic opposition yes,but i feel like they're still a minority most of the time, adevout minority sure but a minority. Really i think its more likely we turned into an secular oligarchal/authoritarian state (but thats another discussion entirely) before we become an islamist one.


wajibulqatal

In Pakistan there's huge support for sharia. Somehow they think sharia would solve all problems. Youth in particular. Nobody disagrees because everyone knows disagreement might mean blasphemy.


fabulin

muslim youth are quite extreme with their religious beliefs, you rarely find moderates. they're either all in or very liberal from my experience. one thing i have noticed in the UK is that muslim immigrants from the likes of pakistan are far more tolerant and accepting than british born muslims. i used to get a lot of taxi's before i drove and would pretend to be a non practicing cultural muslim to get lower fares (it legit works!) and we'd inevitably get onto the topic of religion, governence and tolerance. its genuinely surprising and heartwarming how many taqiya wearing middle aged men support religious freedom and tolerance in the UK. its always the same story from them though, they grew up in a repressive pakistan so have witnessed first hand how oppressive that culture can be even for muslims practicing islam the 'right' way. when they come to the UK their attitudes towards women/LGBT/other religions change because they see how it works here and how those ights doesn't infringe on their own personal rights. everyone enjoys the same level of protection and freedom regardless of where you come from or what you believe. sure those taqiya taxi driving muslims may not support the lifestyles but they support the right to them at the very least and actually see them as people due to having them as passengers and getting to talk to them. their kids on the other hand grow up very privaledged and don't understand or realise how lucky they are. they have an incredibly clouded view of pakistan as they've never lived there. sure they've been to visit family numerous times but so have all of us with family living far away. when you visit family its always fun and loving, you catch up on stuff, get treated like honoured guests and have a great time. i'm sure there's plenty of exmuslims on this subreddit who still enjoy going on a holiday abroad to visit family. but thats same aspect that clouds british born muslims, they only asociate pakistan with a good time and build up a link of islam+pakistani government= great. those british muslims wouldn't last 3 seconds in pakistan though and would end up getting treated like shit.


AamirK69

Yeah , no British born Pakistanis are a lot less conservative/religious than Pakistanis coming to the UK. A few uncles taxi drivers being liberal doesn’t mean much. Most of the kids know very well what Pakistan is like, theirs a reason why a lot of them don’t like going to Pakistan. Now I can’t speak for all, but I’d say most British Pakistani girls under 30 are a lot more pro-Lgbt than 10yrs ago, a lot of hijabi girl groups at uni now have a gay friends. Some of my closet friends as Exmuslim gay man who lives in a Muslim ghetto are hijabis. The guys are still homophobic, though a lot more are becoming LGBT friendly.


IamImposter

That's one of the big advantages of God. You can always blame your failures on general populace and their lack of rigidity and closemindedness, real or imaginary. "We could have been greatest country/state/city/tribe/family if only people followed God properly. Look at the girls wearing blah blah. My parents would never have allowed it. Look at these boys lost in their phones all day. They have no time for God" And just like that, all blame is shifted on someone else.


Born-Philosopher-162

It’s very sad. Where do we go from here in the future? Any ideas? Why do you think there is there such disparity between the older people and the youth?


wajibulqatal

Nowhere to go but downhill. Youth is more extreme because of toxic curriculum in schools/colleges/madrassahs. Those who succeed in escaping are lucky.


Born-Philosopher-162

I wish we could find a solution to this issue. You are one of those lucky/sane/intelligent ones who escaped the mindset, I’m assuming?


wajibulqatal

I'm sane to have escaped Islam but I would have to spend my life here.


Born-Philosopher-162

You never know man...you may escape one day. Never say never. Don’t get disheartened. If you ever come to the U.K., you have my support. You can DM me.


wajibulqatal

Thanks 👍


eazeaze

Suicide Hotline Numbers If you or anyone you know are struggling, please, PLEASE reach out for help. You are worthy, you are loved and you will always be able to find assistance. Argentina: +5402234930430 Australia: 131114 Austria: 017133374 Belgium: 106 Bosnia & Herzegovina: 080 05 03 05 Botswana: 3911270 Brazil: 212339191 Bulgaria: 0035 9249 17 223 Canada: 5147234000 (Montreal); 18662773553 (outside Montreal) Croatia: 014833888 Denmark: +4570201201 Egypt: 7621602 Finland: 010 195 202 France: 0145394000 Germany: 08001810771 Hong Kong: +852 2382 0000 Hungary: 116123 Iceland: 1717 India: 8888817666 Ireland: +4408457909090 Italy: 800860022 Japan: +810352869090 Mexico: 5255102550 New Zealand: 0508828865 The Netherlands: 113 Norway: +4781533300 Philippines: 028969191 Poland: 5270000 Russia: 0078202577577 Spain: 914590050 South Africa: 0514445691 Sweden: 46317112400 Switzerland: 143 United Kingdom: 08006895652 USA: 18002738255 You are not alone. Please reach out. ***** I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically.


shitstrings

No hotlines for majority of the countries that are posted on that map lmfao great help this is I am sure


[deleted]

Good bot.


FightPatriotFight

Gen. Zia Ul Haq did try it, didn't he ? Isn't there already evidence that it doesn't work


lebaneseleo

Pakistan is a lost cause..


Critical_Voice_1211

its the principle, they vote for sharia then flee to the west while saying who good sharia is, once they get it, they'll want it gone quite quickly


[deleted]

Based Turkic countries.


iziyan

Most Bangladeshis When they think of Sharia, they support it, but wait untill Sharia is put into place, they'll start a mass exodus


Born-Philosopher-162

It will be too late for most at that point. But Bangladesh has a lot of problems with extremism already.


feraferoxdei

Or they'll say: that's not true sharia. Reminds me of some whacko communists and libertarians. Starting to think, some people are just hard wired to believe in ideologies, it's just a matter of where and when in our world you put them.


fre3zzy

One of the state in Malaysia is actually praticing sharia already. That state also happened to be the poorest state in the country constantly mooching off federal money which is mostly funded by the kafir companies 🤦‍♂️


onurreyiz_35

Most Successful Sharia State


[deleted]

Ah yes... the Alabama/Florida/ Texas of Malaysia


pizzaisgurd

Kelantan? Idk


whygeorgie

The poorest, the ugliest, the dirtiest state where most of its youth flee to work in a progressive, conducive, laden- with-entertainment capital city of Malaysia but return home to vote for the same shitty political group.


nearlybreathlessnik

Did not think India would also be this green. Assumed it would be lower tbh


Born-Philosopher-162

Why is that?


nearlybreathlessnik

I guess maybe it was my biases at play here. But then again I haven't seen the villages etc and odds are the religious landscape is extremely different there but I always assumed that most urban Muslims in India would not support Sharia being made the law of the land. Although technically according to Indian law when it comes to inheritance, personal matters there are religious provisions in mind. (But this is there for all and not just one particular faith)


Born-Philosopher-162

I think hardline Muslims often say one thing to the public, but another when they are anonymous (as they would have been in this poll), or behind closed doors. For example, in Britain, where I live, when Muslims and imams speak to the media, they will often profess their tolerance and support for secularism, yet behind closed doors and in their mosques, those same Muslims preach extremist values, support violence, and denounce the secular values that they’d previously pretended to support.


nearlybreathlessnik

Perhaps you are right. Were these extremist views ever challenged from within the Muslim community inside these closed spaces? I've never gone to mosque like a believer would... In the sense regularly etc etc. Are these things challenged at the prayer meets etc?


Born-Philosopher-162

I’ve never seen anyone challenge them, myself, unfortunately. Even if people wanted to, I think they would be too scared to. I knew a girl who just wanted to stop wearing her hijab because it was making her go bald. Not even leave Islam or criticise it - just stop wearing her hijab for a bit. She was so brutally harassed, ostracised, and bullied that she broke down, repented, and wore it, even though it was making her hair fall out. If people do see problems with Islam and the Islamic community, they rarely vocalise it. Only the bravest do, and never in an actual mosque or when they are surrounded solely by other Muslims. They do so when they are at a safer distance. If they don’t, they are subjected to horrific abuse, honour killings, or forced marriages. Even those at a safe distance receive constant death threats if they publicly voice their criticisms of Islamism - even if they are still Muslim, just a truly moderate one.


nearlybreathlessnik

This is so so unfortunate. Because it plays right into the hands of the extreme right then.


Born-Philosopher-162

The extreme right share a lot in common with Islamists. They are two sides of the same problematic coin.


AamirK69

Lol desi Muslims are by far the most religious, i mean we all know about Pakistan , but communal riots are constant thing in India.


nearlybreathlessnik

Yep. Accept that completely. Which is why I mentioned my personal bias might be at play here.


onurreyiz_35

Yeah this seems accurate. Thanks to Ataturk of course.


ozgurongelen

Turkey seems accurate


prepbirdy

When they do get it they'll say this isnt the real sharia they want and move to Europe.


Born-Philosopher-162

Where they will subsequently try to implement sharia, totally neglecting to realise that Islamism is why they had to leave their country, in the first place!


prepbirdy

rinse and repeat.


ImaginaryFoe

I promise you once they get a taste of sharia they will want to leave their countries immediately.


RyuDev

And then they start asking for sharia in europe/america. 🙄


Phantombiceps

Isn’t the problem in accuracy here that political history make “sharia “ symbolize different things, depending on the country? For example, sharia could be seen as an alternative to corporate, beauracratic, military or police governance in some places, and could be seen as a bit more decentralized community based and democratic . It could also be seen as uniting ethnic groups. In other places it could be seen as a worsening of all the above issues, and as an tool to increase tyranny. In other words, how good or bad sharia seems may depend on what other political forces the public is being threatened with.


Born-Philosopher-162

Yes, sharia can mean different things, also depending on whether the country is Shia or Sunni. But I don’t think that it ever means anything good, not as us secular humanists see good anyway. Even in its most benign forms, it is used to subject people to heinous forms of abuse and human rights violations. And of course it is, because it is intrinsically based on the advice in the Quran and/or Hadith - both of which are completely barbaric when perceived as advice manuals.


Phantombiceps

I think it is a bit blurring the issue to say it is never anything good-that isn’t really how politics works. The world is not owned and run by the people yet, so the public is faced with choices of lesser evils, not good and evil. For example, if i am poor in a developing muslim majority country i might more likely side with islamists who at least talk about helping the poor than liberal Muslims who won’t chop off hands or kill gays but are free marketeers. I am not saying people are choosing rationally even between evils, just that politics isn’t good moral philosophy we just then inscribe into social reality. It is really messy.


HolyWisdom33

This a 2013 survey, right? I am more interested in what the result would be if done today.


baboushcat

As practicing muslims, you are told since childhood that sharia is Allah's divine law, can't ever be wrong and all in the benefit of humans, so it becomes an automatic response without really knowing what all of sharia entails. Unsettling results nonetheless to call for barbaric practices.


Born-Philosopher-162

How, then, do you account for the differing support for sharia among the Muslims of the world? I get that many don’t realise what sharia entails...but do you think that the countries with the most overwhelming support are that way simply due to ignorance of what sharia entails? I don’t.


baboushcat

>do you think that the countries with the most overwhelming support are that way simply due to ignorance of what sharia entails? No I don't, it's not simply due to ignorance but also indoctrination and suppression of information that would offer better alternatives. I'm pointing out to the role of childhood indoctrination and abuse and how it makes wanting shariaa less of a conscious choice and more of an automatic one, by "training". Shariaa is still aweful.


Golden_dickk

making worst country to live map will just need changing the title


Born-Philosopher-162

Sorry what? I don’t understand. EDIT: Oh haha, I get it now! Yeah, it could be viewed as that! 😂


SketchySimster

I live in Turkey (says <20%) I've seen a lot of people supporting that but not most people here are like this, even though they are quite strict but I haven't seen most of them wanting Sharia, so it seems accurate to me.


CyanideIsFun

I'm colorblind. Can someone explain this map to me? The color palettes are very similar. Thank you in advance.


________name________

The map is based on this: https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/


akantyphilosopher

Kinda suprised at Russia ngl. Also interesting that Iran isn’t included, I guess because they’re already under sharia? Most ppl there don’t support it tho.


iambertan

Chechens.


Born-Philosopher-162

Saudi Arabia, UAE countries, Libya, Algeria, and a variety of other Islamist countries aren’t included either. I’m guessing because it’s hard to conduct a fair poll in those countries.


akantyphilosopher

Ya I noticed that, I guess so.


TheRoadOfDespair

Yeah they want sharia but not live under sharia lmao they gonna flee in free european countries 100%


Born-Philosopher-162

Yep, like all those young Muslims who went to join ISIS, then begged to be let into/let back into European countries when it all fell apart.


Gloomy-Literature444

Stalin and Ataturk still giving allah nightmares 💪💪💪💪


SplitMindPeanut

Ataturk yeah. Fuck stalin


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whygeorgie

I remember how often in the religious textbooks, Ataturk is named as the antagonist of Islam. He's like the worst human ever existed in the mankind. My teachers taught us how badly god punished him when he was dying after all he did in Turkey. I was like, "Yeah, whatever. He's a hero." In my heart. Couldn't say it loud. You know.


Chickenmaggots100

In turkey?


Gloomy-Literature444

She is from Malaysia


Reddubsss

Why would Turkish teachers talk shit about Ataturk lol?


Chickenmaggots100

There’s a law in turkey which says you can’t criticise Turkish historical figures. I was wondering if there existed Turkish people that were against (openly) ataturk.


Far_Negotiation_1511

Fork Stalin


risehub

Turkey,kazakhistan,Azerbaijan based. They are all Turkic btw proud to be a Turkish


Skyonfire30

do Turkish muslims doesn't care about islam? I think they are more atheist Muslim or very softcore Muslims after all white muslims sounds weird


imalpha1331

There's a lot of support for Sharia in India among Muslims, mainly as a response to the ruling BJP government, which (along with the RSS - the ideological backbone of the BJP) supports the idea of Hindu Nationalism (or Hindutva, if you want to call it that way)


Born-Philosopher-162

Yes, the extremism of a ruling religious group can often lead to reactionary extremism of other minority groups. But I think it might be more than that, in India’s case. I’m pretty sure support for Islamism was very high in India even pre-Modhi, and had a lot to do with the breakup of the Indian subcontinent by the British, and the subsequent religious rivalries that fuelled. Or do I have it wrong?


imalpha1331

You don't have it wrong, but not entirely correct either. It's, like most other British things, complicated. Muslims, led by Jinnah in the 1920s were demanding a separate electorate for the Muslim community but Gandhi was against that proposal. Eventually Jinnah accepted Gandhi's view, if they were assured of reserved seats in the Assembly. But all hopes for a unified India were lost after M R Jayakar of the Hindu Mahasabha strongly opposed a unified country at an All Party Conference in 1928. Since then, there has been enmity between the two religious groups. But it has reached a new high since Modi came to power in 2014


[deleted]

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Born-Philosopher-162

You’ve literally just agreed with what I wrote, though - you’ve just gone into more detail than I did. You literally just explained that support for Islamism in India existed because of the religious rivalries that were fuelled by the British breakup of the Indian subcontinent. That’s exactly what I said, I just didn’t go into as much detail as you. And I previously acknowledged that Hindus are the majority in India, and that Hindu extremism led to reactionary extremism by the Islamic minority. I fail to see how you have corrected me in anyway. Also, Muslims have committed horrific violence against Hindus, too. Unfortunately, horrific violence has been perpetrated by both sides.


Key1oo

Lmao Palestine is very green and they want to get a state, I hope they will never get it


Born-Philosopher-162

Yeah, I mean, Israel is bad - I don’t think we should downplay that. They have definitely created an apartheid state, and that is fucked up - it has helped fuel extremism on both sides. But what people often fail to understand is that Palestine is at least just as bad, possibly far, far worse. If the issue was only the Palestinians seeking secular freedom for their land, as is so often portrayed in the media, I would totally support them. But they’re not. They want to create a racist, Islamist state, and the last thing this world needs is another one of those.


Lumen_Tore

I think it's a 50/50 issue. But people in life loke rooting for the underdog, in this case Palestine. But I have heard that most Palestinians actually don't want any conflict, same with Israelis to a lesser extent. The biggest problem is the Palestinian government/rulers, they kill every attempt from Palestine to bring peace and commit atrocities, making Israeli commit them too.


Diving_Element

I am looking at Israel and what do I see? A developed nation, with a strong economy in the technology, medical, military and finance sector. I will always prefer a state like Israel compared to the rest of the middle east.


Lumen_Tore

Fair enough


ronyaha

For Bangladesh it’a true. Couple of months ago muslims in Bangladesh also burnt a person alive for the accusation of defaming islam. Here is the source: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/10/30/man-lynched-in-bangladesh-for-alleged-quran-desecration-police So here we are


DuchessDawn

Proud of Turkey


SlenderJack07

A lot of them don't even know what Sharia says. They just see it's part of Islam, so they blindly agree with it. Indoctrination. It's so sad.


radradiat

accurate for turkey


Agahmoyzen

Where my kemalist peeps are? *high fives.


alialahmad1997

I live in syria this does seems greatly accurate No one truly knows


Born-Philosopher-162

How are you doing? I hope you are safe and well. I am so sorry for all the hardships that your country has suffered.


alialahmad1997

I am safe thank you I am privileged that i lost no close relative to the war nor did distruction touch my city But we are suffering the faild economy and the 16000% inflation rate But it is relatively safe


Born-Philosopher-162

I’m very sorry for all that you and your countrymen have suffered. If you ever need support, I don’t know what I can do, but I will try to help. You are welcome to DM me if you need to.


alialahmad1997

Thank you my friend But i am good We didn't lose much in the war its just shame that there is no future in thia country But its ok many people here suffered far more than i did i hope they get better


Desperate-Ant-2341

If you don’t mind, do you believe more people are losing faith in Islam? Do you believe atheism/ agnosticism is on the rise?


PoliticalSapien

Seems like Afghanistan is getting what it wants.


FullNefariousness310

You need to look at it a little deeper. This is the study: https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/ There is some difference amongst those who believe it should be the law of the land. Furthermore, in Pak and BD, islamists dont get more than 10% of the vote. Lastly, there is cultural and societal difference too. So the map is correct but you need more nuance. Plus, this is pre taliban and isis. So perhaps things have changed now for the better. But who knows.


Born-Philosopher-162

2013 is not pre-Taliban, but it is pre-ISIS. But yes, this is where the image came from - I remember seeing it back then, but I wasn’t on Reddit then obviously, so I didn’t get a chance to ask everyone in ex-Muslim their thoughts about it! I came across it again today, and thought I would post it here. To my knowledge, however, no other large scale study like this has been posted, and if anything, the rise of Islamic State has led to an increase in support for Islamism around the world. This map, therefore, probably shows a fairly conservative estimate of the numbers compared to what it would be these days. Numerous different human rights organisations and institutions that study extremism have stated that they have seen a rise in extremism around the world in recent years, including in Islamist extremism, unfortunately. On a personal level, these days I know far more Muslims who see Islamism as normalised, compared to back in 2013. Back then I think those who were radicalised tended to be older. I knew parents who would pressure their kids to go fight in Afghanistan against the kuffar, but the kids weren’t having any of it. The older radicalised Muslims seemed out of touch. These days, it seems to be the younger Muslims who are the most radicalised, which is very worrying. Islamic State propaganda has led to a glorification of Islamism among many Muslim youth. So the numbers are actually probably worse now, unfortunately.


FullNefariousness310

I dont think so. I think that always its usually the young who are radicalized and fight. Remember, radicalized Muslims are a small % of Muslims but they tena to be loud. Ofc if you mean a lot of Muslims tend to see ideas such as corporal punishment, killing gays and apostates as sth to be excused or overlooked, i agree with you. Most Muslims will never do horrible things (thankfully) but those who do has support of Allah and Muhammad so they can shut down any challenges from Muslims.


[deleted]

I think I can say that it's pretty accurate for Malaysia. There's a growing number of extremists fascists ideology, especially among the youths. They've never cared for the rights of non-Muslims and think that sharia would solve all the problems.


Born-Philosopher-162

That’s very sad. I, too, have noticed that in many countries (including the U.K.), it’s the youth who are the most affected by extremism these days. I think in the 2000s the reverse was true - the extremists were usually older and out of touch with the more secular youth. Not saying that all Muslim youth are like this, obviously, but the ones who are tend to be younger these days. I remember in the early 2000s, my boyfriend in the U.K. was very Muslim, but despite that, when his Dad (who supported the Taliban and hate preachers) wanted him to go fight in Afghanistan, his response was to laugh and say “no way! I’m not dying for that.” Now many of the young Muslims I speak to see Islamism as completely normal, and are eager to enforce its values on everyone else. There are exceptions to this, though. Young people in Turkey are usually pretty open-minded and secular, especially those from cities. Do you think there is a solution to this problem that your country faces?


[deleted]

The only solution is when the majority (the malays) see the true colors of what is happening right now in this country..and this might take maybe next 100-200 years ( no seriously, I am not exaggerating). Conservatives is a win here , and there's very little of liberals (most are Chinese and Indians and rare Malays like me). Only the majority Malays can change this country that can vote out the ruling party that has been governing since independence and always has been causing racial tension. Another solution is to migrate. There are high number of migration happening since the past 5 years. Country has lost hope. The amount of dirty politics and corruption here is unimaginable. But the majority supports those in power, so as liberals, we can't do anything but migrate. My heart pours for this country (in terms of culture, the diversity and food), but this place is not suitable for surviving anymore. Not to mention we have Zakir Naik living here- given the Permanent Residence status. By 2030, Malaysia is the next Lebanon in terms of economy and Afghanistan in terms of extremism.


AamirK69

I think we need to take into account in how different countries and cultures view and interpret sharia. I doubt someone from Kazakhstan and Pakistan have the same interpretation of sharia law. Additionally I think a lot will say they want sharia just because they don’t want to say they don’t wants god law, when in reality they don’t really want sharia implemented. Like when my mom thinks of sharia she thinks of stuff like marriage, funeral rites and inheritance. I assume this true for most Muslims in turkey, Central Asia, Russia, Balkans, some parts of the Middle East and South East Asia who want sharia. I don’t think they want Pakistani style sharia where women are policed, religious minorities are persecuted, where entertainment is constantly monitored and restricted, where people are killed for blasphemy.


pussyloverdam

These same bastards will shit blood if criminal laws are applied, like cutting hands for stealing or stoning to death for adultery..


Baton2

I think that less than 5 % of muslims in my country (Bosnia) want to establish the sharia law. I'm glad it's not gonna happen ever.


Chickenmaggots100

Look how they used green for sharia and red for secularism, implying that sharia is good and secularism bad.


Born-Philosopher-162

Yeah, I noticed that, too! I was wondering if anyone else would. I suspect that maybe they did it to avoid accusations of islamophobia, which inevitably accompanied any research done into this topic, no matter how objective.


Chickenmaggots100

Doubt the map was created by pew. It has Allah and the tag of a user + weird designs which pew wouldn’t put in their maps.


Born-Philosopher-162

Ah, you may be right. But it is definitely based on the data from the Pew Research Center. Here’s the original report: https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/


vahidshepard

I'm from Afghanistan and this is sadly true. Even my relatives wich taliban kills alot of their family members, but they still support sharia law at any cost without a doubt.


[deleted]

Well, I'm from Russia and I'm really surprised how dumb muslim minority there...


AamirK69

I mean I assume sharia just means different things to Russians Muslims than it does to say Pakistani Muslims.


[deleted]

Bro most Bangladeshi Muslims have no Idea what sharia law is, they think it has the name "Islam" in a so it must be good


H-H-S69420

Iraq is pretty accurate, one of my classmates supports sharia law


[deleted]

This was a deeply problematic study. I read through the research methodology a while back and found no effort whatsoever to mitigate against prevalent selection biases or question-induced answers, no terminology standardization, and no cross-population sample consistency. This is one of two Pew Research studies which have very sadly broken my trust for their institution because of how badly they designed their research. I would be ethically wrong to use this data in any of my own research.


Born-Philosopher-162

How specifically is it problematic? They asked a variety of questions in the study, and they even made a point to differentiate between different people’s interpretation of sharia. They asked questions about what sharia meant to people, and what aspects of sharia they would like to see implemented. This map shows a simplified summary of the study - namely, it purely shows the level of support for sharia by the Muslims of each country, without differentiating between different people’s interpretation of sharia (which they did show in the study). It would be hard to show all of that in a single map. Finally, the study very clearly shows the standardised questions that were asked of the polls’ participants. They even make a point to state that interpretations of sharia differ by country, and that support for the most hardline versions of sharia tends to be less than support for the versions that deal in more benign religious matters. Nevertheless, everywhere sharia has ever been implemented, or tried to be implemented, it has been the cause of numerous human rights violations. Even the most benign forms of sharia are insidious, so it is important to know how many Muslims around the world have been indoctrinated to think that ANY version of it is okay.


Intelligent-Ad-566

It's probably inaccurate, especially in Egypt where a guy like abdulnasser is worshipped by many. Most Muslims believe they should say yes to that question otherwise they would become hypocrites or bad Muslims, so they say it out of peer pressure not because they support every single part of it, they're fed since birth that this is the way of life without knowing what it is, it's false.


Piritcho

I'm from morocco It seems a bit accurate Though most people here have no idea on what the Sharia is like so they would advocate it then flea the country if its applied


Special-Reindeer

For India it's more visible in the closer sections of Muslims, as they only constitute 25-30% of the population. In front of Hindus, they'll cry for secularism, better treatment over others and hold victim card in every aspect of life. It's a ticking time bomb ... which will lead to a civil war in India within next 30-40 years.


DakillaBeast

Not very accurate. DRC is not very muslim. Its mostly catholic, with about 50% catholic, 40% Protestant, and 10% the rest, including traditional and national religions. In all my life living there, I only saw one muslim in the streets. So I'm not sure where the green comes from, but hey, maybe the little minority really want sharia laws. Which would be weird cause why don't they just move to muslim majority countries.


Born-Philosopher-162

This poll is only in regards to the Muslims in your country - so even if there are only 10% Muslims in your country, what this map means is that 70-80% of those Muslims support sharia, not that 70-80% of the entire country supports it. But in regards to your question, we could ask the same thing about Europe - so many Muslims come here from sharia countries, then complain that there is no sharia law here. It’s so hypocritical and mind-boggling. As you said, why don’t they just go back to the sharia country they fled from? Unfortunately, rational thinking and religiosity don’t tend to go hand-in-hand.


soliwha

I beg Somalia is 30-40% it’s getting lower thanks to the amazing women openly fighting for their rights there.


Nadine1999nov

I’m concerned that the sharia support in Lebanon is between 20 and 30% , for a small population like ours that’s a significant number. It seems we have not learned from the civil war, it is quite sad.


MycologistAmbitious

For Morocco, north-west Africa, that is totally inaccurate, nowadays many people are against some basic Islamic laws, let alone Sharia..


Quasar47

I don't understand, if you are really muslim wouldn t you want sharia since the Word of God says its the best thing? Are those muslims denying the word of God? Or do they see that it s an awful law system? if so how can they still believe in such a religion ? Isn t what God says moral because he said so? Anyways why Algeria has no statistics? Im curious since we are from there


browsza

They didn’t ask Uzbekistan? Hoping it’s because the govt would crack down on the asses of anyone who said yes 🤞


Simpoge39

They probably surveyed five people in each country


[deleted]

Everyone wants Shariya until it gets implemented!


CrimeanSoldier

As a turkish i think it should be higher in turkey


tetsu-o

I don't know what's worse: calling Russia a muslim country or coloring the whole country on the map instead of few selected regions.


Born-Philosopher-162

First of all, I didn’t make the map - the Pew Research Centre did. Secondly, yes, not all these countries are Muslim countries, per say. I tried to edit my title immediately after I posted it to reflect this - I guess when I wrote my comment, I wasn’t really thinking about Russia and India, but the more stereotypically Muslim countries that make up the majority of the countries reflected. However, I couldn’t figure out how to edit my title. I figured that people here would get my point, though.


IdioticZacc

> Malaysia > 80-90% .


pizzaisgurd

Damn


[deleted]

Unfortunately there isn’t much difference between older and younger folk


Born-Philosopher-162

I think there is in some countries. Where are you from?


[deleted]

Egypt.


Argall1234

Well what's the problem? Let them have sharia if they want it. We'll see how fast they'll try to escape to live in the west.


LaReinaAzul

No data from Iran because the know most people dont support this bullshit. You have to go to backwater villages to find extremists


crateringclouds

Lol at south Asian and south East Asian countries being darker than the middle eastern ones. Checks out though.


pizzaisgurd

That's shocking for Malaysia (˘・_・˘)


Baberaham_Linncoln

80-90% for sharia seems pretty accurate for Bangladesh. On a group chat with old bach mates I've seen almost all of them supporting cases of extremism in Bangladesh. Thousands of shops threw away and millions of people boycotted products made in France during the Charlie Hebdo incident. Nowadays they're talking about how good taliban would be for Afghanistan. Edit: Saying it again, I don't consider them friends. Just bach mates.


crossonhilldesert

This is from 2013


TheFlyingBadman

As far as Pakistan is concerned, this is accurate.


pnerd314

Sadly, it seems accurate at least for Bangladesh and Pakistan.