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Nosfrat

Let's say I'm thinking of a random number right now. Do you believe that number is even? Or do you believe it's odd? Those are the only two possibilities, but not believing one doesn't mean you must believe the other. You can reject both because you simply don't have enough information to go with either of the two options. God's existence or non-existence is the same. Similarly, in a court of law, if you're not convinced someone is guilty, that doesn't mean you're convinced they're innocent.


SpreadingRumors

I suspect you are thinking of an irrational number. I do not know which number it IS, but it is not even, AND it is not odd.


Nosfrat

Let's say I have a carton of eggs in my fridge. The number of intact eggs in that carton cannot be irrational; it's either even or odd. What now?


sbsw66

Keeping eggs in the fridge is always irrational mate


whiskeybridge

not in the u.s. many companies here brush them so they're completely white and uniform, which removes the natural anti-bacterial coating. plus if there's a tiny crack you've missed, refrigeration will slow any spoilage.


Vaulted_Games

They paint eggs white? So much I am learning today.


Tazlima

Not always. The way eggs are processed for commercial sale determines whether they need to be stored at room temperature or in the fridge. This article explains the difference. TLDR: Washing eggs removes some contaminants but also removes the natural protective coating that normally protects them from other contaminants. Both processing methods protect consumers equally well. If you're wondering how to store them at home, copy the seller. It's actually quite interesting. https://www.businessinsider.com/why-europeans-dont-refrigerate-their-eggs-2018-4#:~:text=In%20the%20US%2C%20eggs%20that,processed%20before%20they%20reach%20stores.


sbsw66

Tbh mate I just wanted to keep the rational/irrational train going


Tazlima

Lol, my bad.


Der_k03nigh3x3

We’re just trying not to die from food borne illnesses here in America. Please stop encouraging Americans to not refrigerate their eggs. Our food-health standards are shit so that corporations can make more money and we have to refrigerate our eggs because of it.


DoglessDyslexic

I don't believe I will win the lottery. vs. I cannot win the lottery.


SpreadingRumors

You certainly cannot win the lottery until you buy a ticket.


cosmicomical23

Not with that attitude.


technothrasher

I used to win the lottery many times a day, and never bought a single ticket... I sold them at my liquor store.


Wolfbinder

It means that lack of belief is not a belief itself. Like how baldness is not a type of hairstyle.


Der_k03nigh3x3

It is if you purposefully shave your head bald 😉


Vaulted_Games

Or have a tiny bit of hair left


geophagus

I don’t believe there is a god means I’m not convinced any gods exist. I’m not claiming to know there are no gods. I believe there is no god means I’m convinced no gods exist. I’m claiming there are no gods.


sj070707

It's the same as the difference between not guilty and innocent.


Brilliant_Matter_799

I always get people confused when I tell them I'm a skeptic. They always ask "So you believe said thing is false?". And I always reply, nope it's that I don't believe it's true. ie I don't have belief in the statement, not that I do believe in a negation of the statement.


pennylanebarbershop

I do believe there is no god, at least the Christian type of God that is omnipotent and can see everything in real time- this is because the physics of the universe makes this impossible, barring some concept that another dimension exists where access to all points in the universe is permitted in real time. That is so far fetched that I will say it is simply impossible.


Seekin

Excellent question, thanks for asking. [Lack of Belief in Gods](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk) is an excellent video to explain the difference and some of the reasons the difference is important. That video helped me when i had similar struggles understanding this several year ago, now. Have a blast!


Paulemichael

I can positively believe in pixies. I can also positively believe that there is no such things as pixies. Or I can not be convinced that pixies exists. The extensive FAQ will help you with definitions.


AwesomeTrish

It's an indifference completely. Believing in No god makes one an anti-theist, and believing in god makes one a theist. To me, god doesn't factor in anything. I don't care enough to give thought to if there is, and on the same breath, don't care to answer for if there is isn't. i hope this makes sense.


Der_k03nigh3x3

Atheist and anti-theist are two different things. Anti-theists are most likely atheists, but not all atheists are anti-theists. I would venture to say most *aren’t*


AwesomeTrish

I know, that why I state Atheist is indifference, no belief in god is anti-theist, and belief in god is theist. Anti-theists have accepted there is no god, and atheists lay the claim there may be no god until proof comes to light. They're not the same.


zoidmaster

The first quote make it seems like you’re rejecting the existence of something while it exists the second one is like saying this thing never existed to begin with That’s my interpretation atleast


EthanBeast

I think that’s a bad take. I can prove that most deities and gods that have accepted descriptions within most religions do not exist as they are defined through logical thinking. But then there are some near infinite number of other possibilities that haven’t been written down and defined that could be true, sure. But this is too philosophical for everyday life. I don’t need every belief or opinion I have to be riddled with nuance and checklists. For fucks sake stop giving mythologists a leg to stand on.


pja1701

For my money: *I believe there is no god* implies that I am confident that there is not anywhere any kind of god. *I do not believe there is a god* implies that there might be a god somewhere, but I don't see a reason to entertain that as a serious possibility. I'd go for the second one myself. Of course this raises the question of *what is a god* and would I recognise one if I saw one. Maybe I'm passing gods in the street every day without realising it. But I don't see a reason to think that's really the case.


Technical_Working_82

A believer has no doubts about god existence. On the other hand a non believer doesn't not believe god exists, but he can not be 100% sure of that. I don't believe in god but if someone manages to prove it's existence I would be forced to accept it's existence. Of course, if that happens, I'm almost sure I wouldn't worship it. In general the gods available don't deserve my respect. They are abominable.


glitterlok

> I heard the YouTuber CosmicSkeptic on a podcast with Richard Dawkins say" I don't believe that there is no god, I just don't believe that there is one?" And I don't quite understand the difference between the two statements. Any help? Can you tell the difference between these two statements? * I'm not convinced that there is a blue car outside of my window. * There is no blue car outside of my window. Hopefully so. The first simply indicates that a claim about reality exists (a blue car is outside), but the speaker is not convinced that's actually the case. In the second, the speaker is making their own claim about reality (there is not blue car outside), presumably because they feel they know enough to make that claim. Saying "there are no gods" is a pretty fucking big claim, especially considering some of the things that have been said about gods and their attributes. In my view, you would have to know an *awful lot* about the universe and reality to be able to say with any level of confidence that there are no gods. I don't personally feel that I know the amount of information I would need to know to make that statement, and so I don't. In the meantime, I'm not convinced by the claim "there are gods." I've encountered no convincing or compelling reason to think that claim is in fact true. And so, when it comes to the question of whether or not I believe (am convinced) that any gods exist, my answer is "no."


SlightlyMadAngus

Try separating "belief" from "knowledge". They are two entirely different concepts and they are not mutually exclusive. Belief is a binary state - you either believe or you do not believe. Simply considering the question makes you form an opinion, whether or not you admit it to yourself or others. Knowledge is completely different. Knowledge is a continuum from "I have absolutely no clue" to "I am 100% certain." On the question of the existence of any gods, belief is handled by theism/atheism. Knowledge is handled by gnosticism/agnosticism. You can hold any combination of the two concepts to describe your stance on the question. I lack belief in the existence of any gods AND I have no knowledge about the existence of any gods. That makes me an "agnostic atheist". I'll take it a step further and also say that I see no *requirement* for the existence of any gods.


Gavin_Belson420

Even more, there are no reasons to think about the existence of a god or gods.


SlightlyMadAngus

The reason to think about it is because we are all surrounded and bombarded by religious concepts and built-in religious assumptions in our society. This forces us to use our critical thinking skills to identify & dismiss their bullshit, or we run the risk of being overwhelmed by it.


Fun_in_Space

It's the difference between: "There is no God." <- assertion "I am not convinced that any gods exist." <-- not an assertion


Witchqueen

There are many people who believe that the pyramids were built by extraterrestrials. This is one of many possibilities and not completely out of the realm of the possible. However, I feel, that there is no solid evidence that aliens were involved or even needed. With enough muscle power, you can do some fantastic things. And Egyptians used to have engineering know-how far superior to other civilizations of that era. So I can say that I don't believe that there were no aliens involved (I don't know), but I don't think there's enough evidence for me to believe there was. We are not nonbelievers in fairies or leprechauns. We just don't care about belief until we get the proof.


Der_k03nigh3x3

It’s agnosticism defined lol Reverse the sayings. “I don’t believe there is a god” - I think you can grasp that haha. “I just don’t believe there isn’t, either”. Schrödinger’s Cat is another applicable thought experiment. Until you look in the box, the cat is *neither* dead nor alive. Until we look in the “box” that may or may not contain god, there is no way for us to know if there is or isn’t a god. And unfortunately this “box” is unable to be looked into by mortal beings, so we’re left out here with sayings like the one you mention, lol Essentially it’s saying “I don’t believe there *is* a god, but could be persuaded that there is a god given the right evidence/circumstances” - aka Agnosticism Hope this helps


Exotic-Principle-974

There are good explanations here already but I'd just like to add something... I don't get why people like this don't just say "there is no god". I don't believe there are any gods for the same reason I believe there are no flying pigs. There's no evidence or reason to believe there is. Could flying pigs possibly exist? Sure, but until there's a reason to say they do, I feel pretty safe saying they don't.


EdmondWherever

I think this kind of thing is less confusing if, instead of discussing what we "believe" rather we discuss what we are "convinced" of. I am not "convinced" there is a god. I am not "convinced" there is NO god. Both can be true.


DingoLaChien

Doesn't matter if it's real or not, one chooses to believe what they will.


madplumber1

I do not believe people can choose their beliefs. I would say "you are either convinced of something or not convinced."


DingoLaChien

I think people change their minds all the time.


madplumber1

I agree. That has nothing to do with being convinced or not at a certain point. But yes you can be unconvinced of something you were previously convinced of.


DingoLaChien

I used to be convinced that there was a God. Then I took a world religions class in college. My tiny sheltered bubble ~ burst. I felt so lied-to and brainwashed, and decided to bring light to all of these lies that were embedded within our society to control us, I felt like "Rowdy" Roddy Piper, when he first put those sunglasses on, in 'They Live'! They call me crazy, but I know better. It is not I, who is crazy... It is I, who is mad!


madplumber1

You became in convinced and it was not your choice. That's how I was trying to explain it


DingoLaChien

So we're arguing for the same side? Fine! Agree with me! See if I notice! 😉


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Conscious-Dirt-7289

Your biology and psychology outside of your 'will' Basically, free will is an illusion. You don't actually choose anything


madplumber1

It's like this. When you are little you convinced the tooth fairy is real because all the evidence suggests so. Once you start to get older and reevaluate the evidence you find that it's not "convincing" you anymore even though you still really want to believe in the tooth fairy. Just like there are atheists who can practice a certain religion for cultural and societal reasons. It would behoove them to keep believing. But they are currently unconvinced and would need to be reasoned back to being a theist. You are allowing convinced or not convinced of any belief and can change position as more info (good or bad) is presented to you.


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Feinberg

Sounds like you're basing your claim on a sample size of one.


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Feinberg

If belief were a decision, that would make sense.


madplumber1

Cool. You are wrong. You can't make yourself or decide to believe in Santa clause.


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madplumber1

I don't know if you are trolling or why you can't understand this. Can we agree that some people believe in SantaClaus??


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madplumber1

Thank you. So If we can agree that some people believe in him the claim that it is unbelievable is not correct. Even if it is children there is no age requirement for Believing anything. It doesn't matter if its true or not. I don't believe we can ever say anything is absolutely true. You can believe for bad evidence you can believe for good evidence or it can even just be your own intuition. But you are either convinced or not, even if you wanted to you can't make yourself believe something before you "convince" yourself first.


madplumber1

I see that you replied but it's not coming up. Can you re reply


Able-Edge9018

Probably means he is agnostic


FlyingSquid

An agnostic atheist, yes.


JinkyRain

If the answer to "do you believe God exists?" Is "not yes", that does not mean "no", because there is also "maybe" and "I don't know", which are neither "yes" nor "no" answers.


Nosfrat

>If the answer to "do you believe God exists?" Is "not yes", that does not mean "no" Yes, it does. Do you believe God exists? Any answer other than "yes" (including "maybe" and "I don't know") means you are, in fact, **not** convinced that God exists. It also doesn't mean you're convinced God doesn't exist; that's a different matter altogether. Your comment would be fully accurate if the question were "does God exist?".


JinkyRain

Sorry, I thought from the context of the post I was replying to that I could get away with using fewer words. Apparently not. I added the bolded/italicized to it: If the answer to "do you believe God exists?" Is "not yes", that does not mean "***I believe in*** no ***god***", because there is also "maybe" and "I don't know", which are neither "yes" nor "no" answers. Also I take issue with the choice of word 'convinced'. There are many people who believe without being convinced. It's a matter of faith without certainty. They hope, they struggle with doubt, but persist anyway. "I'm not convinced that god exists" is not the same thing as "I don't believe god exists". Because even people of faith struggle with doubt and certainty.