Yes, get the human experience by having kids and letting your kids being bullied since they're small because nobody gives a shit about them! š Welcome to society!
If theyāre an ostracised female, I imagine theyād have to deal with a lot of emotional abuse. If theyāre a male, theyād have to deal with a lot of obstacles and physical confrontations related to masculinity, maybe even belittled - especially if they have autism or schizophrenia, which has more difficulty dealing with that.
āBuddyā
Belittling Subliminal Noun
Male for āyou appear weaker than me. If you do something I donāt like, I will beat the shit out of you and win. Iāll have my way with you.ā.
I canāt speak for the petty shit that goes on in the female world.
Never have hated my parents for bringing me into this world, they had only good intentions. That does not mean I have to do the same for various reasons! Does that sound whiney and suicidal to you?
We would all die if none of us had kids. That would go against the nature of living beings as everyone's trying to survive. But our consciousness maybe more rational, lets us think about the sense of things. Like life.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-mouse-utopias-1960s-led-grim-predictions-humans-180954423/
Look at the experiment they did with rats, they overpopulated them. And this is what happened:
Literally. I have mental issues due to a lot of crazy familial issues and bullying throughout my adolescence. Although im in college working on myself, Iām not perfect and am kinda dysfunctional. I sometimes skip class, get behind on assignments, and canāt commit to things like exercise as easily as others. My dad passed away after a brutal two year battle with cancer in May, and that honestly threw me even worse
Of course not. It's when you start preaching to others it becomes a problem.
If y'all would be pissed someone is forcing religion down your throat, you understand why others don't want you forcing your ways down theirs.
I think philosophy and religion are very similar that way so what you said makes 100% sense. I think a lot of the people on here have good intentions with their antinatalist beliefs and wish no harm on those with opposing views. Itās just sad how a person can be called miserable for not wanting kids!! You know what would make me miserable!!? Having kids. At least I Know that about myself and I am in no way judging others for having them. Itās like we give respect but get none back.
I am 100% for anyone, anywhere doing anything they want as long as it does not negatively affect others. In that sense, im 100% libertarian.
For those of you that live that way, carry on. It's for those of you I see posting pictures of seemingly perfectly happy families on here and then trashing them for having kids, those people have real issues.
So tired of the hate and the suicide baiting.
This idea that anti-natalists are hypocrites for not killing themselves is unfortunately quite widespread. AN only concludes that procreation is wrong. Anti-natalists aren't hypocrites for living.
They just hate us for being AN. I don't think that they would suicide bait a depressed/unhappy natalist.
Our worldviews are too different, they can't understand our reasons for antinatalism at all. They wouldn't say those things if they did.
I view AN as a compassionate philosophy, wanting to spare possible descendants from suffering is a kindness. It's undeserving of the hate that it gets.
i'm 28. the older i get, the more i realize that most people are honestly just fucking dumb at rocks.
they can't understand nuance. they don't get anything.
i don't care how arrogant i sound, it's just the truth.
they can't understand how we believe that happiness in life should be maximized for everyone who's born, but simultaneously don't think it's worth it or moral to introduce new beings into this existence. it's more pain than pleasure, and often utterly devastating.but when we find ourselves on this planet, of course we just have to make the best of it. doesn't mean we need to drag anyone else into this. and you have to be dull as a motherfucking doorknob to somehow not notice that we humans have evolved to fear death. i attempted suicide once while blackout drunk, because i was unhinged and uninhibited; rose a rifle to my head. my sister saved me. but anyway, i'm just saying that it takes a LOT of suffering for people to actually kill themselves. it's just so against our nature to kill ourselves, but some of us have enough empathy to not bring kids into this mess.
god damn. most people are just so dumb. that's it, that's all.
26 and have been realizing the same thing. I had no IDEA how many people are dumbā¦ like I knew a considerable chunk were, butā¦ goddddamnnn lol! Not that Iām any genius, but the closed off-ness people have to any ideas that are new or that donāt follow some script is sad. I love learning and I love changing/evolving with what I learn!
Sorry to hear you almost committed suicide. Iām glad your sister was able to save you.
I personally donāt wanna die, but Iād like to not be here. But I also believe life can be beautiful and awesome, I love exploring our planet. Even so, I would never chose to bring someone here. You likely wonāt get to spend as much time doing things that actually make living enjoyable. Plus, I would for SURE not get to do those things anymore if I had a kid lol. These people have large assumptions of antinatalism.
Another hater, no surprise. I'm just going to start blocking people from now on. I've tried to be nice but I see it's pointless to even bother with some people.
Itās getting really old. I recommend reporting these people. If they want to challenge AN CONSTRUCTIVELY or have questions, thatās one thing. But if someone is encouraging suicide, that is a sure fire way theyāll risk getting their account cucked. Thereās really no need for those people and their mods need to do the responsible thing and tell their people to stop crusading here.
Literally most of us donāt even hate kids and life in general, we just recognize that people having excessive amounts of children and neglecting them in various ways is traumatizing and just continues a needless cycle of pain for people who didnāt even ask to be here
I joined this sub a few weeks ago, and I have to say it isn't exactly the most positive place. My experience so far has been three "I wish I was never born because existence is misery" for every well articulated post on why it is best to not have children.
On top of that, I am a mother of three (there were half as many people in the world when I had my children) and the resentment present here for people with children has made me hesitant to participate in the discourse.
In short, this sub is not a very inviting place. Which is a shame as I feel the philosophy is not only valid, but should be on the fore of global discussion. Population growth is possibly the most important issue of our time. But the hostility of this sub's most prolific posters and the extreme presentation of their views is pushing away the very folks they should be trying to bring on board.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. If you think the way the idea of antinatalism is communicated is wrong, feel free to communicate it in the way you think is right
āI feel the philosophy is not only valid, but should be at the forefront of global discussion. Population growth is possibly the most important issue of our time.ā
Exactly. My first was born almost half a century ago and the concept of overpopulation wasn't something I was aware of, and don't get me started on the cultural expectations at the time. I was ignorant at the time, now I know better. But as you and the person you are replying to (and the support their comment has received) proves my point. While there are people here to have a frank discussion about the morality and responsibilities of reproduction, there is also deeply negative elements to this community that needs to be addressed if this philosophy is to be taken seriously.
Unfortunately there are no rules in this sub against "childfree" content. That's topics that are unrelated to antinatalism, for example hating children. It's not an antinatalist sentiment to say you don't like children but there's no way to report those posts as there's no rule that you must be on topic. Then people who want to post about hating children join because that's what the sub looks like and those posts become more and more popular.
Also, the moderators do not answer questions or remove many posts as it is, so the quality of the sub just drops and drops. Unfortunately the only way to fix the sub is with better moderators but this isn't a democracy and at this point the childfree subscribers probably outnumber the antinatalist subscribers.
When I first encountered this sub that was my first question. Why donāt you guys kill yourselves? I get it now, but back then it was confusing so I asked sincerely and got Insta banned for like 3 days. I thought that was kind of strange that the sub was so touchy about a question. Itās in the rules not to ask that. I think itās just a really easy misapprehension for whatever reason.
The negative is assigned to procreation. Antinatalism only opposes creating new lives, it does not oppose continuing existing lives.
Many antinatalists are happy with their own lives but for the antinatalist, being happy doesn't justify gambling with another life and imposing existence, especially when existence brings guaranteed harm. No one asks to be born after all, or chooses the circumstances of their birth.
We're a group of people who don't want a new generation to suffer. What's so wrong with that? Its not like we're monsters or anything, unlike these ingrates who are telling others to do the self harming just because they don't understand.
They'd rather raise a generation to be their caretakers and not see past their own family so they'd never leave home.
But yes. They willingly decide to be close minded.
The funny thing is if their parenting is anything like their online hatred, their kids will go no contact at 18 and they'll be caretaking themselves or be thrown in a nursing home.
A lot of aging parents are finding out that their kids weren't planning on becoming caregivers.
Their kids are the generations X and up, and a lot of us aren't even friendly with our Boomer parents. A lot of us had a foreshortened view of the future. "Retirement? We won't even live past 27! Taking care of my disabled parents or siblings? Me? Dude, I've been living on cereal & hot wings - I can't adult that much".
I remember when I was younger, my mother would always say that she was excited for me to learn to drive because then I'd be able to be her chauffer when she got old. I think she's finding out the hard way with barely any communication between us that I want nothing to do with taking care of her.
So much monkey-brained nonsense. AN isn't even a difficult philosophy to understand. They're being willfully ignorant because they're scared of losing the only thing that gives their lives any value: Procreation.
Iāve realised this as well lately and itās getting really disgusting and out of hand. The blatant insecurities and toxicity is just another reason to be AN. These type of people are only reinforcing AN points. The constant crusades because they canāt stand being called out in what theyāre doing is selfish. That sounds like a personal problem. Cope harder. Iām just going to start reporting people to the mods not only here but to Reddit in general. If someone wants to act like a literal child, I donāt see a reason not to get someone like this kicked off the platform or at least off the subreddit. At first it was manageable but now itās getting ridiculous. There is no place for that here.
Oh, and for the record, in regards to legitimately encouraging suicide (which Iām pretty sure violates not only laws but the main site rules), that is absolutely repulsive and disgusting. Anyone who genuinely encourages someone to take their life out of hatred is an awful human being and needs to get a grip. Typical narcissist. If it doesnāt go their way or conflicts with their belief in some way that hurts their massive ego, they gaslight and attack them.
If you see this sort of behaviour on here anymore, be an adult and report it. Itās one thing to challenge on here or have criticism but if theyāre not going to say anything constructive, they need to stop coming to this subreddit.
Can't even distinguish between "being alive" and giving birth. Life, birth, consciousness, sentience, all are same to them, because they are focused on the carrot. They are happy to have the stick, because the carrot makes it worth suffering the stick. They will attempt to stop any collective attempt to address the problem of the stick at its root. They won't even consider finding a way to have the carrot without the stick, or making it possible to enter the game only by choice.
I never realized just how much people despised the thought of others not having children in general. I had no idea it was such a sore subject to hold the opinion of "I think that bringing a child into such a tumultuous world right now is not a good choice." I'm not going to pound that idea into others' heads, so please, keep your "but BAYYYBBIIIIIEEEEEESSS???!??!" opinion out of mine.
Because theyāre secretly miserable with their kids and want people who enjoy life without kids to suffer with them. Itās sad reallyā¦ š¤·š½āāļø
i hope these psychos & their mini meās enjoy this shithole to the fullest. i guess i just have higher standards for me and my potential progeny. how dare i.
LMAO I have a great life and am still anti-natalist -- you're literally FORCING ppl to exist, just to have to be slaves everyday to sleep, hunger, social belonging, and MONEY MONEY MONEY.
On a planet undergoing severe climate change.
Kill myself?? I'm semi-retired at 34 years old from hard work and saving, love to read, play video games, go skiing/hiking/biking, and play basketball, and have some side tech projects I dabble in (career was as a DBA).
Oh yeah I also act in my local Shakespeare company.
So nah, I'm not gonna kill myself, but I will tell mothafuckas to stop breeding, because it's unethical and also devalues the life already here.
like why would i kill myself if iām not suicidal? LMAO that just seems stupid. These people just write without thinking like i should kill myself cause i donāt want kids of my own? wild.
No, as an antinatalist I understand that parents can have children out of love, but whether itās out of love or not itās still inherently selfish, even if they donāt realise it. I know my parents love me more than anything, but I still feel forcing an existence on someone is selfish.
I am not an anti-natalist, I just lurk this sub to learn some opinions. But I have to point out the irony that they think everyone here is miserable and suicidal for not having kids... Meanwhile, it's also the people here who are actually able to enjoy their lives because they're not anchored with kids.
There are plenty of good reasons not to have a kid. These critics think that fucking night and day and being a baby factory is the be all and end all of life. It isn't.
Same with me, I am here to hear different opinions. When you are living in the enviroment that thinks having kids is everyones life goal you get a bit tired.
The only thing that I havent found in here yet is how do antinatalists think not having kids i sustainable in the long run. You need young working people to suport elders. When the world becomes to old it's a problem for human survival.
Nature has it's own ways to deal with overpopulation of animals in the wild(animals hunting eachother, hunters not having enough food to survive, older speciments dying from the elements and/or inability to take care of themselfs).
Humans on the other hand have been on top of the food chain for a while with very little danger to worry about. We have a lot of old people that need suport and spend recources but don't contribute much to the society.
Solution to the problem in my eyes would most likely be for people to die, or get killed in their working age to not be a burden for the society. We are at the point where people have less kids than ever but the advancements in medicine and technological inovations allow for a longer lifespan making the planet overcrowded. I understand that it sounds distopyan for people to give up their lifes at in their 60s or even 50s but if I had to choose between death or not giving birth as a way to control population, I'd chose death.
This is only a thought experiment and is to be taken with a pinch of salt as I think that we are doing fine as things stand right now.
I am not suicidal anymore, I wasnāt suicidal from being antinatalist but from depression of living when I was 13 and thinking about how I still had 60+ years left. I have to come terms with that tho.
*sigh* I donāt want to die because that would be a waste of the time, resources, and money that my parents spent raising me so I will see where this decaying, ill-kept road leads me. If I die, earlier than expected, due to circumstances outside of my control so be it.
But, if I couldāve not existed would have been a dream.
TLDR non-existence < continue living despite the life of suffering < suicide
I donāt hate my parents at all. I love them to death. But even my parents support my decision to not have children. This in turn gives me freedom to live my life as I choose and I can take care of them when theyāre older. My mom told me she didnāt want kids, but she did because my dad wanted kids. She loves us and has been my rock in life but I wonder how her life could have been if she didnāt have me and my siblings. . . .
Faceless internet people 101. The hatred that often gets mindlessly tossed around from both āsidesā is so idiotically counterproductive. This reminder helps me tremendously: https://youtu.be/wMWEPHeiU7k
Not wanting to be born does not equal wanting to off myself.
Today I and many others lost a person we looked up to growing up in Jason David Frank (from Power Rangers) to suicide. This hit me hard given I attempted suicide twice in the past.
The depression is real and can hit anyone and people shouldnāt be going nonchalantly saying āgo kill yourselfā online or any other way.
If anyone is feeling down and needs help, no shame in asking for it. [Hereās a list of suicide hotlines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines)
Natalists: If you believe it's not worth being born then you are just depressed miserable people and should kill yourself.
Anti Natalists: So let's allow for Euthanasia and let's allow people access to a real choice to die.
Natalists: No not like that. Euthanasia is bad.
Natalists are hypocrites. They keep touting how life is a gift and won't allow tolerate suicide. Any suicide survivor can be pushed into a psych ward. Even talking about suicide methods and anything considered encouraging suicide is banned. But they can say kill yourself.
Thatās a great point! Iām gonna steal this to use the next time some Natalist troll rocks up here to post yet another āwHy dOnāT YoU jUSt kiLL yOurSeLvEs?!?!ā thread.
You'd be surprised. The people saying kill yourself don't want to see the issues we talk about. They will tout about wonders of life despite evidence of the contrary.
Even people who support Euthanasia don't support it for mental illness. Despite saying that depressed miserable people should kill themselves.
Unless you actually see someone say both things then calling them a hypocrite on that will not help you be persuasive at all.
The person will just think I don't believe this, or I don't believe that.
also not to sound like iām being really sorry for myself but maybe thereās a reason i hate anything and everything? maybe itās cause life is disproportionately harder for a lot of us so we see the cruelty in reproducing, and that it isnāt a selfish hateful opinion itās one that stops more people from suffering as badly or worse than me
this just goes to show how simple-minded people can be; not wanting to do what the majority does is impossible to them. their reasoning is literally like "They don't want to reproduce so that must mean they just want to die". it's ridiculous
that's a generalization, and is not what antinatalism is about. judging others for their harmless beliefs is still wrong and the original point in my post still stands. thank you :)
Because the forthcoming population decline is going to require the entire capitalist system to be restructured. And people who are currently benefitting from it have successfully brainwashed most of the masses into buying in.
For this system to persist, we need to keep shifting out under-nurtured, undereducated consumers.
yeah i've seen some very questionable posts here that border on eugenics, human rights violations, and just straight up bullying. antinatalism is supposed to be very opposite of hate, so it's sad to see so much of it festering.
Well, having kids and raising them is so often THE goal in life for many or most people. Its expected that your viewpoint is just completely strange to them.
To suggest that having kids is bad for many reasons including moral ones can be understood as a personal attack on someone whos core values are very much based around kids and family.
It's not hard to let others have their beliefs but yall spend a lot of time on here posting pictures of peoples special needs children & going off about how they should've let the child die. You know nothing about the situation. As a parent of a special needs child, that's rather hard to see. If you believe that it's irresponsible & immoral to have kids, that's fine. But you have no right to spend this much time & energy ridiculing people who believe differently. It's pretty hypocritical.
antinatalism is a philosophy. it should viewed at by its ideology and not its supporters, because followers of antinatalism have many varying and branching beliefs from the main philosophy that don't always reflect it fully. nowhere in antinatlist philosophy does it say "post disabled kids and say death would've been kinder." there are a lot of differing opinions, basically.
i respect someone's choice to make a kid if they want to. yes, silently i'd be wishing they had adopted instead but i'm very pro autonomous rights and dont think we should govern anyone's body but our own. i want my beliefs respected in the same way i respect someone's decision to continue their bloodline. i dont see the hypocrisy in that.
thanks you the respectful reply. i think debate and criticism is a great way to strengthen ones own beliefs (as well as share with others) as long as the criticism is genuine and not hateful.
Yeah. Christianity is a philosophy that should be viewed by it's ideologies but not it's supporters. & you can see how well that's going here in America. Christians at large are acting like they have the right to tell people how to live, in accordance with their beliefs & it's very dangerous.
The hypocrisy comes in where many are saying that no one has the right to be making a kid. Other people don't believe that way. So don't be expecting people to respect your beliefs if you're not willing to do the same. Many posts are bordering on eugenics when it comes to people with disabilities & they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to raising a special needs child. If you want your bloodline to end with you, go for it. I get not wanting kids & believing it's irresponsible to have them. I never planned on having kids but my bc failed & I'm doing the best I can for my little gremlins. If you believe it's wrong, that's fine. Live by it, you do you. & while it's not in your philosophy to be saying "kill the special needs kid" the majority of this group is saying that & the mods do nothing about it. I dont even know why this group popped up for me but my very first exposure was a post showing a medically fragile child with the same diagnosis as my daughter & people were saying they should've let the kid die. It was...it wasn't great to see. Especially being only 2 years after losing my daughter who was very much loved & an amazing, happy little girl. I get the philosophy, I support it wholeheartedly. But it's being overrun by eugenics supporting people & they're speaking the loudest as far as I can see. It's not good.
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I wish I wasn't born
Why haven't I killed myself? Well, I tried but I was "saved". No country allows you to safely euthanize yourself based only on your free choice. Because of idiotic natalists who want to control others and preach about "how wonderful life is". You'd rather make people suffer only to defend your stupid beliefs. It's your fault so many people keep on suffering
What do you have to say about that?
That's right. Nothing
Fuck you
Itās funny that one guy is saying āthey think people have kids for their egosā and failed to give any other reason LOL. Maybe because itās true at least for the ones that consciously choose to have kids. Most are accidents.
The crime is not to be alive, like that idiot in your first picture said (as being alive is an IMPOSITION). It's procreation that is fucked up, not being alive. Imposing life to someone who can't consent, putting them in all the risks in life is the crime. It's called antinatalism for a reason, it's not called anti-life.
Well, quite a number of people in this subās sole reasoning is āthe world is doomed af humanity is fucked af being alive is the worst we should all die and go extinctā.
Honestly I was quite surprised with the pessimism.
As a childfree myself, I believe there are various reasons why people donāt want kids that doesnāt involve āeverything is doomedā mindset
Right, but being an antinatalist doesn't just mean that one has "some" reason not to have a child. It means that one sees the creation of new human beings as something that is generally immoral. And the reasoning for this has to be somewhat dramatic by nature.
āAntinatalists are so dumb, the world is a fantastic place to live in and humans are great lmao they should just k*ll themselves!ā Like ā¦ Ok yes, great point /s
Im just a uninvolved spectator so if youāre genuinely wondering: I sometimes get posts from this subreddit recommended to me that appear to be direct attacks on specific people who have children. Iām not saying thatās what this sub is about but it can come of as hostile
yeah i notice that a lot too, personally i wish people would stop being so hateful. antinatalists should respect others' choice to reproduce if they so wish even if they disagree. i just wish outsiders would view antinatalism through it's philosophy rather than the people that follow it. if they did, i think they'd understand even if they disagreed. and honestly that's all im asking for: understanding, not conversion.
As someone who welcomes children, I also recognize that child rearing isnāt for everyone and I respect those who decide they donāt want children and do everything possible to keep from conceiving them.
However, when people who donāt want children, for whatever reason, call those of us who do have children, say we do it as a matter of ego and selfishness and then go on to the name calling of ābreedersā āincubatorsā and names.called to our children, Iām not particularly interested in seeing it as a āmovementā because itās been made personal and demeaning.
I hear all the time on this sub about the āmoralityā of bringing children into a broken world, but then these same people turn around and dehumanize those of us who think differently.
If you want to be taken seriously, then remember the human behind the comment.
Do these retards not understand you can be antinatalist and enjoy life??? Itās possible to comprehend the philosophy while still being a happy person and understanding it would be wrong to have a child without their consent and run the risk of them being an unhappy person
They don't call antinatalists hateful. They call this subreddit hateful because it is. Your own beliefs are fine but when every post in this sub is just blatant hatred towards everything and everyone you can expect people to dislike it.
Iām someone whoās have decided to be child free since I was a child (ironically enough), but am not involved in this subreddit outside of viewing the recommended posts.
I can kind of understand what they mean. The posts that are recommended from this subreddit are very hostile and degrading with the nicknames and attitudes towards those with children. (Especially towards mothers, disabled people, and the children themselves which can feel a like an escapism for expressing bigotry regardless of intentions).
It feels like a very unwelcoming environment even for other child free people; especially towards users who refer to parents as breeders, and children who had no choice on being born with vile nicknames too. (When a good chuck of us child free people were in similar conditions as a child on being unwanted, so the lack of empathy is concerning from some users).
I do overall agree with what antinatalism stands for, especially with the uncertainty of the future, but the hypocrisy of this specific subreddit is an occurrence even in this comment section. (How people here are saying that they are vile, obsessive, and miserable while being obsessive and loathing of those who consider having children or have already; to the point of building and joining a community over it).
I donāt think what the comments have said in the shown post are right though and is too hostile as well. It feels like both sides lack self awareness and the anonymity increases usersā cohesiveness (but negatively), but decreases common civility as well. :/
The subreddit is a good example of how social psychology works through group think and group polarization.
"parents only do it for their egos"
Okay, give me 1 reason why people want kids that isn't selfish.
Also anyone who tells us to just kill ourselves are extremely ignorant. They clearly have never been suicidal in their life because if you were you'd know that even then you would be affraid of dying because of the fear of death and what comes after. People fear the unknown.
It's because most of the posts you see here promote hate and isn't about true antinatalism.
The sub is also filled with people who misinterpret antinatalism and have a hatred for children. (Nothing wrong with that as I can understand where they are coming from) but natalists won't take you seriously when you say you hate children because they are deemed "innocent".
This isn't the sub to express hatred towards anyone.
I will say though that all those people who tell us to "simply" commit suicide are incredibly ignorant to the problem and don't know what they are talking about.
Pulling the plug on your own life isn't easy no matter how suicidal you are. Most people who do commit suicide take years to do so. Mainly because people are affraid of death. No one knows what truly happens when you die. Is it nothing at all? Just darkness all around you? Total oblivion? "Eternal damnation" like the bible describes? Does heaven or any form of afterlife really exist? These questions are frequently asked.
To straight up tell someone to kill themselves makes you a part of the problem and doesn't help anyone. It only shows your lack of empathy.
I donāt end my life, because I have cats and they are my responsibility. Iām not leaving them. Plus I believe in reincarnation and donāt want to end up back here, because I missed some life lessons.
I mean, they're a bunch of brain dead normies. The amount of mental gymnastics you have to perform to think that what we have around us is acceptable is astounding.
I wish I could kms but I'd fail it :\ /hyp
Anyways,while I think people should stop producing babies cause there are just too many idiots that exist,like there are people that shouldn't reproduce at all,since they're abusive or have some health issues that they'd make the child suffer too and those who don't simply want them for any reason,get pressured by their surroundings since apparently everyone wants to live like that too.
Uhhh, I think honestly these people come to the thread to see shit like this and also people making fun of those who do have kids.
I don't think it's because "we're antinatalists."
Also, with the main point being that this world nets more suffering than pleasure, thus, bringing new life into it is immoral, it's quite easy for me to see why they would think "If living is soo bad, then why not not live?"
The same parallels exist in other concepts, like existentialist concepts like Nihilism and things of that nature.
Keep in mind, I'm not saying they're right, by any means at all, but I'm also not saying that, say, other people in the comments of this post are right, too.
Y'all all need to chill the hell out. Just stop talking about how marginalized you are, and stop propagating both their slights on antinatalism, and your slights on how shitty parents are for just having children.
>"If living is soo bad, then why not not live?"
Like you mention this is present in other existentialist concepts. It also has a wide variety of answers. The most common I've come across is:
"We already are living. We don't know what comes next. It could be worse."
With that, we choose to live and we try to make the best of it. Not everyone here is miserable, I'm fairly content with my life.
Isnāt it bad for someone that has shit genes or is disabled to have kids like the kid is going to suffer and youād imagine how kids and people at school are thatās just not good
So seeing someone have kids when they are disabled shouldnāt be mocked but shouldnāt be happening and they should adopt if they really wanted to not subject an innocent person who doesnāt consent and ask to be here to carry that weight life is cruel sometimes and the posts in that way are showing how someone crazy people are to have a kid even when they are close to dying and knowing that itās just for there benefit but not the kid clearly and they need to think about the situation but most natilists donāt
Though yea the philosophy shouldnāt advocate hate but people are going to view everything here as hate just because people have victim complexes when giving birth and is seen as bad like murder if you go against it like your going to do something bad or tear them down (since most people live to have kids as purpose with how bad life is, or control them to see fit since they have a āmini meā) so they will view even the most rational posts as hate but wouldnāt think twice when the kid suffers, thatās a life who is suffering
So thereās a difference between actual hate and ones that are showing the stupidity people go to birth when itās guaranteed suffering generally but definitely if someone is disabled
Again, before people start giving me shit...
I am an antinatalist.
I'm here because I fundamentally believe it.
I am still sickened by the actions and reactions of both sides of this coin.
if any Antinatalists read this and are willing to discuss this philosophy with me, pls DM me.
I would really like some insight, because to be honest i do not quite understand Antinatalism and i really want to
Hell yeah I wish I was never born. Iām here though, and it would hurt a lot of people if I kms. I believe in doing no harm, which is why Iām an antinatalist.
My neighbors next door, married, both women, both antinatalists
Decided to adopt a child instead of procreating
I donāt see anything wrong with that.
i don't really understand your comment. depressed people that don't want to continue others' suffering should.. kill themselves? please explain yourself a little further if you don't mind
The only thing they got right was that I *do* hate my parents for having gave birth to me. They couldn't possibly understand or sympathize the reasons for that though. So in their eyes, *I'm* the bad guy.... make me so mad.
Yeah. Like I enjoy my life... but I have so many reasons not to have a kid, and I have so many problems that \*could\* go much worse, and I wouldn't want to inflict that, or the other possible issues, on a child. And I live in a 'good' country. So... I don't feel like killing myself. But I also don't want to bring someone else in.
The point of antinatalism is to finish your life happily and peacefully, and just not continue the cycle, because those who you birth may not have the chances to live the same peaceful life, and living happily and peacefully isn't always natural.
But killing yourself is not what we want.
You say this, but any attempt to actually engage with the philosophy of antinatalism is either, met with no rationale and pure emotional disgust at suffering in abstract, or just downvoted into oblivion for proposing another line of thought?
i've seen plenty of healthy and respectful debates on this subreddit that don't just result in downvoting and silencing. in fact debate is welcome to a certain degree, because one should be able to justify their beliefs if given a pushback on them. the problem is that there are a lot of people that forget that *respectful* part of the debate. im all for challenging beliefs, but nobody needs to be an asshole about it. it's frequently the assholes that get downvoted to hell and back
Tbh I look at those comments and my gut instinct is to think: āProjection much?ā The lack of consideration/ inward reflection from these people is astonishing.
They say we're whingy.... But have you ever met a parent š¤£ so moany and whingy about not getting sleep, not having enough time, the cost of childcare, picking up the kids, having to get a sitter, that they have to work and somehow look after their children etc etc etc. It's almost like they lived in a bubble their whole lives and didn't expect it to work this way and then they still end up having more than one child like seriously????? Did you really think having another would somehow make it easier??
So are you saying those complaints arenāt legitimate or valid?
When you complain about whatever it is you complain about, do you want to be taken seriously or told to stop whining? Are you not allowed support and understanding when your life is hard or you have a challenging task? After all, youāve made your choices too.
Not that I want anyone to kill themselves, but if itās so hard to do yourself, why should we put that difficultly on someone else to do it for us? If itās not easy for you, why would it be easy for someone else?
Okayā¦ there are selfish people who have children. There are selfish people who donāt have children. I would say the selfishness is probably the problem and not the children. I donāt think itās wise to lump people as one or the other based solely on whether or not one has children.
Second, not everyone has childhoods they need to heal from. If you have one, then itās good you are working to process that
Third, your opinion is not the only one that matters.
š¤£š¤£š¤£
*WE'RE* the "pathetic whingers?" *WE* don't lose our shit when it takes an extra ten minutes to get our Starbucks or have to walk an extra five minutes to the establishment's door from the parking lot.
*THEY*, on the other hand, throw full glass jars at people for not being impromptu nannies and destroy $2,000 phones/tablets when their Germ Factories are told they can't use them.
Iāve never thrown a glass jar, empty or full, at anyone. Nor have I destroyed anyones property, for any reason.
So THEY cannot POSSIBLY be all of us, rather the ones you have personally witnessed doing such things.
I just don't think it's a good idea to have kids. When you look around and see what happens daily, you realize not being born for so many people would not be the worst outcome..
Because it is the fundamental good of all living organisms to reproduce. It's a basic biological function that has gone awry with you. It's wrong on every approachable level. I'm not hating on you, I wanna kms, we're degens together, but that doesn't change the basic scientific fact
it was a screenshot of that "happiest child-free millennial" at disneyworld post, but this subreddit's title was censored and "child and parent hating sub" was put over it. the entire comment section was either bodyshaming or disdain for antinatalismš¬
If you spread your genes on purpose, you have a big ego. Give me one alternative reason for why you should create a new child, when there are millions without parents already.
On the whole this response is absurd, but I have to point out *some* of these responses are directly linked to anti natalists who go out of their way to shame child bearers out there.
Can't tell you how many times a day I scroll through and some of you are just as hateful towards people with children or people who want more children.
I'm not by any means excusing the people who are blindly assaulting us, I'm simply pointing out there are those among us who are just as hateful.
The only reason I would ever have a child is if Iām more than emotionally, mentally, and financially ready to support them and give them the best life possible. I need some years to heal from childhood trauma and my dadās battle with cancer before Iām ready to be a father. Plus as a black man I feel like thereās already a negative stigma around us not being good parents so I want to make sure Iām the best for them if I ever were to have one
In true Natalist fashion theyāre so distanced from humanity that they advocate for suicide. These are the types of people who have kids when they should not.
Idk. I love myself and my life and would never commit suicide. I hate kids and the people who have them because most people who have kids donāt support them by themselves, they always dig into my pockets (taxes) in order to pay for their shortcomings. I shouldnāt have to pay one penny in taxes so that other peoples mistakes can go to school. If they canāt afford to put their kids through school and donāt have the time to teach the kids themselves then they should have had an abortion. I will never get any benefit from my tax dollars paying for other peoples kids. They donāt pay taxes so itās not a mutual exchange. Completely one sided. This is why I donāt care when kids die. I have no natural instinct to care for children therefore I donāt have any. I think most other people donāt care either and they only have them for tax breaks and government benefits.
Gee, no clue why I don't want to bring kids into this world. With this kind of love from people out there I should have a whole bunch!
Yes, get the human experience by having kids and letting your kids being bullied since they're small because nobody gives a shit about them! š Welcome to society!
If theyāre an ostracised female, I imagine theyād have to deal with a lot of emotional abuse. If theyāre a male, theyād have to deal with a lot of obstacles and physical confrontations related to masculinity, maybe even belittled - especially if they have autism or schizophrenia, which has more difficulty dealing with that. āBuddyā Belittling Subliminal Noun Male for āyou appear weaker than me. If you do something I donāt like, I will beat the shit out of you and win. Iāll have my way with you.ā. I canāt speak for the petty shit that goes on in the female world.
Never have hated my parents for bringing me into this world, they had only good intentions. That does not mean I have to do the same for various reasons! Does that sound whiney and suicidal to you?
Super. Ur so edgy, u sound like such a miserable, insufferable person. Why havent u kys, hypocrite? /s Need to vomit after typing that
Yes! Cuz the answer to antinatalism is why donāt we all miserable human beings kill ourselves!
We would all die if none of us had kids. That would go against the nature of living beings as everyone's trying to survive. But our consciousness maybe more rational, lets us think about the sense of things. Like life. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-mouse-utopias-1960s-led-grim-predictions-humans-180954423/ Look at the experiment they did with rats, they overpopulated them. And this is what happened:
Why did eighty one people feel the need to upvote their comment? Who are these eighty one people?
It sounds like something a whinger would say, whatever a whinger is.
I think it's like an Australian word for complainer? But I'm not from Australia so I can't be sure...
We use that word in the UK, yeh it's a moaner lol.
Literally. I have mental issues due to a lot of crazy familial issues and bullying throughout my adolescence. Although im in college working on myself, Iām not perfect and am kinda dysfunctional. I sometimes skip class, get behind on assignments, and canāt commit to things like exercise as easily as others. My dad passed away after a brutal two year battle with cancer in May, and that honestly threw me even worse
Of course not. It's when you start preaching to others it becomes a problem. If y'all would be pissed someone is forcing religion down your throat, you understand why others don't want you forcing your ways down theirs.
I think philosophy and religion are very similar that way so what you said makes 100% sense. I think a lot of the people on here have good intentions with their antinatalist beliefs and wish no harm on those with opposing views. Itās just sad how a person can be called miserable for not wanting kids!! You know what would make me miserable!!? Having kids. At least I Know that about myself and I am in no way judging others for having them. Itās like we give respect but get none back.
I am 100% for anyone, anywhere doing anything they want as long as it does not negatively affect others. In that sense, im 100% libertarian. For those of you that live that way, carry on. It's for those of you I see posting pictures of seemingly perfectly happy families on here and then trashing them for having kids, those people have real issues.
Live free or die!!!
Agreed! That said, I think I edited this post after you posted that. You're too quick!
Yeah Iām bored at work!!!!!! Constantly on redditš
So tired of the hate and the suicide baiting. This idea that anti-natalists are hypocrites for not killing themselves is unfortunately quite widespread. AN only concludes that procreation is wrong. Anti-natalists aren't hypocrites for living. They just hate us for being AN. I don't think that they would suicide bait a depressed/unhappy natalist. Our worldviews are too different, they can't understand our reasons for antinatalism at all. They wouldn't say those things if they did. I view AN as a compassionate philosophy, wanting to spare possible descendants from suffering is a kindness. It's undeserving of the hate that it gets.
i'm 28. the older i get, the more i realize that most people are honestly just fucking dumb at rocks. they can't understand nuance. they don't get anything. i don't care how arrogant i sound, it's just the truth. they can't understand how we believe that happiness in life should be maximized for everyone who's born, but simultaneously don't think it's worth it or moral to introduce new beings into this existence. it's more pain than pleasure, and often utterly devastating.but when we find ourselves on this planet, of course we just have to make the best of it. doesn't mean we need to drag anyone else into this. and you have to be dull as a motherfucking doorknob to somehow not notice that we humans have evolved to fear death. i attempted suicide once while blackout drunk, because i was unhinged and uninhibited; rose a rifle to my head. my sister saved me. but anyway, i'm just saying that it takes a LOT of suffering for people to actually kill themselves. it's just so against our nature to kill ourselves, but some of us have enough empathy to not bring kids into this mess. god damn. most people are just so dumb. that's it, that's all.
26 and have been realizing the same thing. I had no IDEA how many people are dumbā¦ like I knew a considerable chunk were, butā¦ goddddamnnn lol! Not that Iām any genius, but the closed off-ness people have to any ideas that are new or that donāt follow some script is sad. I love learning and I love changing/evolving with what I learn!
Literally this floating rock is full of dumbasses
Sorry to hear you almost committed suicide. Iām glad your sister was able to save you. I personally donāt wanna die, but Iād like to not be here. But I also believe life can be beautiful and awesome, I love exploring our planet. Even so, I would never chose to bring someone here. You likely wonāt get to spend as much time doing things that actually make living enjoyable. Plus, I would for SURE not get to do those things anymore if I had a kid lol. These people have large assumptions of antinatalism.
I fully agree with you, so frustrating.
You're 100% correct with what you said. The sad truth is most people are just too stupid and it's impossible for them to live outside the norm.
Another hater, no surprise. I'm just going to start blocking people from now on. I've tried to be nice but I see it's pointless to even bother with some people.
Itās getting really old. I recommend reporting these people. If they want to challenge AN CONSTRUCTIVELY or have questions, thatās one thing. But if someone is encouraging suicide, that is a sure fire way theyāll risk getting their account cucked. Thereās really no need for those people and their mods need to do the responsible thing and tell their people to stop crusading here.
It's the " You hate capitalism? Yet you buy food." argument smh
Literally most of us donāt even hate kids and life in general, we just recognize that people having excessive amounts of children and neglecting them in various ways is traumatizing and just continues a needless cycle of pain for people who didnāt even ask to be here
>I don't think that they would suicide bait a depressed/unhappy natalist. I do tbh.
I joined this sub a few weeks ago, and I have to say it isn't exactly the most positive place. My experience so far has been three "I wish I was never born because existence is misery" for every well articulated post on why it is best to not have children. On top of that, I am a mother of three (there were half as many people in the world when I had my children) and the resentment present here for people with children has made me hesitant to participate in the discourse. In short, this sub is not a very inviting place. Which is a shame as I feel the philosophy is not only valid, but should be on the fore of global discussion. Population growth is possibly the most important issue of our time. But the hostility of this sub's most prolific posters and the extreme presentation of their views is pushing away the very folks they should be trying to bring on board.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. If you think the way the idea of antinatalism is communicated is wrong, feel free to communicate it in the way you think is right
>I am a mother of three >In short, this sub is not a very inviting place. What made you join?
āI feel the philosophy is not only valid, but should be at the forefront of global discussion. Population growth is possibly the most important issue of our time.ā
Exactly. My first was born almost half a century ago and the concept of overpopulation wasn't something I was aware of, and don't get me started on the cultural expectations at the time. I was ignorant at the time, now I know better. But as you and the person you are replying to (and the support their comment has received) proves my point. While there are people here to have a frank discussion about the morality and responsibilities of reproduction, there is also deeply negative elements to this community that needs to be addressed if this philosophy is to be taken seriously.
Unfortunately there are no rules in this sub against "childfree" content. That's topics that are unrelated to antinatalism, for example hating children. It's not an antinatalist sentiment to say you don't like children but there's no way to report those posts as there's no rule that you must be on topic. Then people who want to post about hating children join because that's what the sub looks like and those posts become more and more popular. Also, the moderators do not answer questions or remove many posts as it is, so the quality of the sub just drops and drops. Unfortunately the only way to fix the sub is with better moderators but this isn't a democracy and at this point the childfree subscribers probably outnumber the antinatalist subscribers.
Which is such a shame. I feel that this is a very important issue that more people need to be talking about.
When I first encountered this sub that was my first question. Why donāt you guys kill yourselves? I get it now, but back then it was confusing so I asked sincerely and got Insta banned for like 3 days. I thought that was kind of strange that the sub was so touchy about a question. Itās in the rules not to ask that. I think itās just a really easy misapprehension for whatever reason.
so does AN assign negative meaning to life or to birth because those are different kinds of shoes
The negative is assigned to procreation. Antinatalism only opposes creating new lives, it does not oppose continuing existing lives. Many antinatalists are happy with their own lives but for the antinatalist, being happy doesn't justify gambling with another life and imposing existence, especially when existence brings guaranteed harm. No one asks to be born after all, or chooses the circumstances of their birth.
Sort by newā¦ first post is someone doing this.
We apparently hate everything in the world
I doā¦ Except food, music and the occasional funny comment.
AND animals. The non-human ones. Especially catsā¦
Literally thereās a lot about this world thatās disgusting
I would kill myself but I have family that would hurt
We're a group of people who don't want a new generation to suffer. What's so wrong with that? Its not like we're monsters or anything, unlike these ingrates who are telling others to do the self harming just because they don't understand.
if they actually took the time to understand antinatalism, they'd find out it's about lowering suffering. but they'd rather be ignorantly hateful :/
They'd rather raise a generation to be their caretakers and not see past their own family so they'd never leave home. But yes. They willingly decide to be close minded.
The funny thing is if their parenting is anything like their online hatred, their kids will go no contact at 18 and they'll be caretaking themselves or be thrown in a nursing home.
A lot of aging parents are finding out that their kids weren't planning on becoming caregivers. Their kids are the generations X and up, and a lot of us aren't even friendly with our Boomer parents. A lot of us had a foreshortened view of the future. "Retirement? We won't even live past 27! Taking care of my disabled parents or siblings? Me? Dude, I've been living on cereal & hot wings - I can't adult that much".
I remember when I was younger, my mother would always say that she was excited for me to learn to drive because then I'd be able to be her chauffer when she got old. I think she's finding out the hard way with barely any communication between us that I want nothing to do with taking care of her.
So much monkey-brained nonsense. AN isn't even a difficult philosophy to understand. They're being willfully ignorant because they're scared of losing the only thing that gives their lives any value: Procreation.
Iāve realised this as well lately and itās getting really disgusting and out of hand. The blatant insecurities and toxicity is just another reason to be AN. These type of people are only reinforcing AN points. The constant crusades because they canāt stand being called out in what theyāre doing is selfish. That sounds like a personal problem. Cope harder. Iām just going to start reporting people to the mods not only here but to Reddit in general. If someone wants to act like a literal child, I donāt see a reason not to get someone like this kicked off the platform or at least off the subreddit. At first it was manageable but now itās getting ridiculous. There is no place for that here. Oh, and for the record, in regards to legitimately encouraging suicide (which Iām pretty sure violates not only laws but the main site rules), that is absolutely repulsive and disgusting. Anyone who genuinely encourages someone to take their life out of hatred is an awful human being and needs to get a grip. Typical narcissist. If it doesnāt go their way or conflicts with their belief in some way that hurts their massive ego, they gaslight and attack them. If you see this sort of behaviour on here anymore, be an adult and report it. Itās one thing to challenge on here or have criticism but if theyāre not going to say anything constructive, they need to stop coming to this subreddit.
Ironic how it's us who are called childish and edgelord teenegers lmao
Can't even distinguish between "being alive" and giving birth. Life, birth, consciousness, sentience, all are same to them, because they are focused on the carrot. They are happy to have the stick, because the carrot makes it worth suffering the stick. They will attempt to stop any collective attempt to address the problem of the stick at its root. They won't even consider finding a way to have the carrot without the stick, or making it possible to enter the game only by choice.
Nothing any of them wrote sounds remotely related to commentators on this sub. They are too busy with kids to critically think obviously.
I never realized just how much people despised the thought of others not having children in general. I had no idea it was such a sore subject to hold the opinion of "I think that bringing a child into such a tumultuous world right now is not a good choice." I'm not going to pound that idea into others' heads, so please, keep your "but BAYYYBBIIIIIEEEEEESSS???!??!" opinion out of mine.
Because theyāre secretly miserable with their kids and want people who enjoy life without kids to suffer with them. Itās sad reallyā¦ š¤·š½āāļø
Exactly. Misery always loves company
i hope these psychos & their mini meās enjoy this shithole to the fullest. i guess i just have higher standards for me and my potential progeny. how dare i.
LMAO I have a great life and am still anti-natalist -- you're literally FORCING ppl to exist, just to have to be slaves everyday to sleep, hunger, social belonging, and MONEY MONEY MONEY. On a planet undergoing severe climate change. Kill myself?? I'm semi-retired at 34 years old from hard work and saving, love to read, play video games, go skiing/hiking/biking, and play basketball, and have some side tech projects I dabble in (career was as a DBA). Oh yeah I also act in my local Shakespeare company. So nah, I'm not gonna kill myself, but I will tell mothafuckas to stop breeding, because it's unethical and also devalues the life already here.
like why would i kill myself if iām not suicidal? LMAO that just seems stupid. These people just write without thinking like i should kill myself cause i donāt want kids of my own? wild.
Your life seems so fulfilled and cool I wish I could be like you. Iām 19 in college and studying in Finance
Let them breed all the kids capitalists need.
This.
The fuck is a whinger?
someone who complains alot apparently (i thought it was a made up word but i googled it and its real)
Wow, holy shit, you're right! I thought they had perhaps misspelled 'whiner' but it's a different word that means about the same thing! Neat!
It's a British whiner.
Breeders are flabbergasted that breeding is selfish. Who woulda thunk it
Why aren't they taking care of their kids?
No, as an antinatalist I understand that parents can have children out of love, but whether itās out of love or not itās still inherently selfish, even if they donāt realise it. I know my parents love me more than anything, but I still feel forcing an existence on someone is selfish.
Whatās wrong with people? Making fun of our suffering.
These people shouldn't reproduce. I bet they would show the same attitude toward their kids as well
Smooth brained takes weāve all heard again and again.
I am not an anti-natalist, I just lurk this sub to learn some opinions. But I have to point out the irony that they think everyone here is miserable and suicidal for not having kids... Meanwhile, it's also the people here who are actually able to enjoy their lives because they're not anchored with kids. There are plenty of good reasons not to have a kid. These critics think that fucking night and day and being a baby factory is the be all and end all of life. It isn't.
Same with me, I am here to hear different opinions. When you are living in the enviroment that thinks having kids is everyones life goal you get a bit tired. The only thing that I havent found in here yet is how do antinatalists think not having kids i sustainable in the long run. You need young working people to suport elders. When the world becomes to old it's a problem for human survival. Nature has it's own ways to deal with overpopulation of animals in the wild(animals hunting eachother, hunters not having enough food to survive, older speciments dying from the elements and/or inability to take care of themselfs). Humans on the other hand have been on top of the food chain for a while with very little danger to worry about. We have a lot of old people that need suport and spend recources but don't contribute much to the society. Solution to the problem in my eyes would most likely be for people to die, or get killed in their working age to not be a burden for the society. We are at the point where people have less kids than ever but the advancements in medicine and technological inovations allow for a longer lifespan making the planet overcrowded. I understand that it sounds distopyan for people to give up their lifes at in their 60s or even 50s but if I had to choose between death or not giving birth as a way to control population, I'd chose death. This is only a thought experiment and is to be taken with a pinch of salt as I think that we are doing fine as things stand right now.
I am not suicidal anymore, I wasnāt suicidal from being antinatalist but from depression of living when I was 13 and thinking about how I still had 60+ years left. I have to come terms with that tho. *sigh* I donāt want to die because that would be a waste of the time, resources, and money that my parents spent raising me so I will see where this decaying, ill-kept road leads me. If I die, earlier than expected, due to circumstances outside of my control so be it. But, if I couldāve not existed would have been a dream. TLDR non-existence < continue living despite the life of suffering < suicide
"if you think having children is unethical, why haven't you killed yourself yet?" makes no sense at all, they're the hateful people they claim we are
I donāt hate my parents at all. I love them to death. But even my parents support my decision to not have children. This in turn gives me freedom to live my life as I choose and I can take care of them when theyāre older. My mom told me she didnāt want kids, but she did because my dad wanted kids. She loves us and has been my rock in life but I wonder how her life could have been if she didnāt have me and my siblings. . . .
But if we killed ourselves they'd be like "What a tragedy, what could bring someone to do this to themselves, they had so much to live for"
The last one made me mad because I wasnāt made out of love I was a green card baby thatās it they just wanted citizenship and they got it
Faceless internet people 101. The hatred that often gets mindlessly tossed around from both āsidesā is so idiotically counterproductive. This reminder helps me tremendously: https://youtu.be/wMWEPHeiU7k
Not wanting to be born does not equal wanting to off myself. Today I and many others lost a person we looked up to growing up in Jason David Frank (from Power Rangers) to suicide. This hit me hard given I attempted suicide twice in the past. The depression is real and can hit anyone and people shouldnāt be going nonchalantly saying āgo kill yourselfā online or any other way. If anyone is feeling down and needs help, no shame in asking for it. [Hereās a list of suicide hotlines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines)
These people are literally so dumb, it blows my mind.
Natalists: If you believe it's not worth being born then you are just depressed miserable people and should kill yourself. Anti Natalists: So let's allow for Euthanasia and let's allow people access to a real choice to die. Natalists: No not like that. Euthanasia is bad. Natalists are hypocrites. They keep touting how life is a gift and won't allow tolerate suicide. Any suicide survivor can be pushed into a psych ward. Even talking about suicide methods and anything considered encouraging suicide is banned. But they can say kill yourself.
Thatās a great point! Iām gonna steal this to use the next time some Natalist troll rocks up here to post yet another āwHy dOnāT YoU jUSt kiLL yOurSeLvEs?!?!ā thread.
The people that would say kill yourself are not the same people against euthanasia.
You'd be surprised. The people saying kill yourself don't want to see the issues we talk about. They will tout about wonders of life despite evidence of the contrary. Even people who support Euthanasia don't support it for mental illness. Despite saying that depressed miserable people should kill themselves.
Unless you actually see someone say both things then calling them a hypocrite on that will not help you be persuasive at all. The person will just think I don't believe this, or I don't believe that.
also not to sound like iām being really sorry for myself but maybe thereās a reason i hate anything and everything? maybe itās cause life is disproportionately harder for a lot of us so we see the cruelty in reproducing, and that it isnāt a selfish hateful opinion itās one that stops more people from suffering as badly or worse than me
this just goes to show how simple-minded people can be; not wanting to do what the majority does is impossible to them. their reasoning is literally like "They don't want to reproduce so that must mean they just want to die". it's ridiculous
Breeders rage
*whinges pathetically*
To be fair- people here talk a lot about wishing they werenāt alive or canāt wait to die
I guess it makes sense that they think this sub is hateful, though. So many people on this sub are child-haters.
You guys literally spend most of your time judging other people for their beliefsā¦
that's a generalization, and is not what antinatalism is about. judging others for their harmless beliefs is still wrong and the original point in my post still stands. thank you :)
Bc having children feeds their egos and other selfish needs, therefore, they need to defend it to fight against the truth.
Because the forthcoming population decline is going to require the entire capitalist system to be restructured. And people who are currently benefitting from it have successfully brainwashed most of the masses into buying in. For this system to persist, we need to keep shifting out under-nurtured, undereducated consumers.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
yeah i've seen some very questionable posts here that border on eugenics, human rights violations, and just straight up bullying. antinatalism is supposed to be very opposite of hate, so it's sad to see so much of it festering.
I find it hilarious
āPlease prevent sufferingā š¤”āWhy havenāt you killed yourself yet, you little bitch with your sad bitch life?ā
Amazing every single word written by these imbeciles are wrong.
Iām not shocked that Antinatalism is a hated group of people. Thereās definitely a lot of religion and gaslighting anywhere you go.
Well, having kids and raising them is so often THE goal in life for many or most people. Its expected that your viewpoint is just completely strange to them. To suggest that having kids is bad for many reasons including moral ones can be understood as a personal attack on someone whos core values are very much based around kids and family.
It's not hard to let others have their beliefs but yall spend a lot of time on here posting pictures of peoples special needs children & going off about how they should've let the child die. You know nothing about the situation. As a parent of a special needs child, that's rather hard to see. If you believe that it's irresponsible & immoral to have kids, that's fine. But you have no right to spend this much time & energy ridiculing people who believe differently. It's pretty hypocritical.
antinatalism is a philosophy. it should viewed at by its ideology and not its supporters, because followers of antinatalism have many varying and branching beliefs from the main philosophy that don't always reflect it fully. nowhere in antinatlist philosophy does it say "post disabled kids and say death would've been kinder." there are a lot of differing opinions, basically. i respect someone's choice to make a kid if they want to. yes, silently i'd be wishing they had adopted instead but i'm very pro autonomous rights and dont think we should govern anyone's body but our own. i want my beliefs respected in the same way i respect someone's decision to continue their bloodline. i dont see the hypocrisy in that. thanks you the respectful reply. i think debate and criticism is a great way to strengthen ones own beliefs (as well as share with others) as long as the criticism is genuine and not hateful.
Yeah. Christianity is a philosophy that should be viewed by it's ideologies but not it's supporters. & you can see how well that's going here in America. Christians at large are acting like they have the right to tell people how to live, in accordance with their beliefs & it's very dangerous. The hypocrisy comes in where many are saying that no one has the right to be making a kid. Other people don't believe that way. So don't be expecting people to respect your beliefs if you're not willing to do the same. Many posts are bordering on eugenics when it comes to people with disabilities & they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to raising a special needs child. If you want your bloodline to end with you, go for it. I get not wanting kids & believing it's irresponsible to have them. I never planned on having kids but my bc failed & I'm doing the best I can for my little gremlins. If you believe it's wrong, that's fine. Live by it, you do you. & while it's not in your philosophy to be saying "kill the special needs kid" the majority of this group is saying that & the mods do nothing about it. I dont even know why this group popped up for me but my very first exposure was a post showing a medically fragile child with the same diagnosis as my daughter & people were saying they should've let the kid die. It was...it wasn't great to see. Especially being only 2 years after losing my daughter who was very much loved & an amazing, happy little girl. I get the philosophy, I support it wholeheartedly. But it's being overrun by eugenics supporting people & they're speaking the loudest as far as I can see. It's not good.
Iām sorry you lost your daughter. (((Hugs)))
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I wish I wasn't born Why haven't I killed myself? Well, I tried but I was "saved". No country allows you to safely euthanize yourself based only on your free choice. Because of idiotic natalists who want to control others and preach about "how wonderful life is". You'd rather make people suffer only to defend your stupid beliefs. It's your fault so many people keep on suffering What do you have to say about that? That's right. Nothing Fuck you
Itās funny that one guy is saying āthey think people have kids for their egosā and failed to give any other reason LOL. Maybe because itās true at least for the ones that consciously choose to have kids. Most are accidents.
The crime is not to be alive, like that idiot in your first picture said (as being alive is an IMPOSITION). It's procreation that is fucked up, not being alive. Imposing life to someone who can't consent, putting them in all the risks in life is the crime. It's called antinatalism for a reason, it's not called anti-life.
Well, quite a number of people in this subās sole reasoning is āthe world is doomed af humanity is fucked af being alive is the worst we should all die and go extinctā. Honestly I was quite surprised with the pessimism. As a childfree myself, I believe there are various reasons why people donāt want kids that doesnāt involve āeverything is doomedā mindset
Right, but being an antinatalist doesn't just mean that one has "some" reason not to have a child. It means that one sees the creation of new human beings as something that is generally immoral. And the reasoning for this has to be somewhat dramatic by nature.
You are right, I confuse childfree with antinatalism.
āAntinatalists are so dumb, the world is a fantastic place to live in and humans are great lmao they should just k*ll themselves!ā Like ā¦ Ok yes, great point /s
Im just a uninvolved spectator so if youāre genuinely wondering: I sometimes get posts from this subreddit recommended to me that appear to be direct attacks on specific people who have children. Iām not saying thatās what this sub is about but it can come of as hostile
yeah i notice that a lot too, personally i wish people would stop being so hateful. antinatalists should respect others' choice to reproduce if they so wish even if they disagree. i just wish outsiders would view antinatalism through it's philosophy rather than the people that follow it. if they did, i think they'd understand even if they disagreed. and honestly that's all im asking for: understanding, not conversion.
As someone who welcomes children, I also recognize that child rearing isnāt for everyone and I respect those who decide they donāt want children and do everything possible to keep from conceiving them. However, when people who donāt want children, for whatever reason, call those of us who do have children, say we do it as a matter of ego and selfishness and then go on to the name calling of ābreedersā āincubatorsā and names.called to our children, Iām not particularly interested in seeing it as a āmovementā because itās been made personal and demeaning. I hear all the time on this sub about the āmoralityā of bringing children into a broken world, but then these same people turn around and dehumanize those of us who think differently. If you want to be taken seriously, then remember the human behind the comment.
No hate but isn't the whole point of this sub to complain about those with different beliefs than antinatalism? š¤
Do these retards not understand you can be antinatalist and enjoy life??? Itās possible to comprehend the philosophy while still being a happy person and understanding it would be wrong to have a child without their consent and run the risk of them being an unhappy person
They don't call antinatalists hateful. They call this subreddit hateful because it is. Your own beliefs are fine but when every post in this sub is just blatant hatred towards everything and everyone you can expect people to dislike it.
Iām someone whoās have decided to be child free since I was a child (ironically enough), but am not involved in this subreddit outside of viewing the recommended posts. I can kind of understand what they mean. The posts that are recommended from this subreddit are very hostile and degrading with the nicknames and attitudes towards those with children. (Especially towards mothers, disabled people, and the children themselves which can feel a like an escapism for expressing bigotry regardless of intentions). It feels like a very unwelcoming environment even for other child free people; especially towards users who refer to parents as breeders, and children who had no choice on being born with vile nicknames too. (When a good chuck of us child free people were in similar conditions as a child on being unwanted, so the lack of empathy is concerning from some users). I do overall agree with what antinatalism stands for, especially with the uncertainty of the future, but the hypocrisy of this specific subreddit is an occurrence even in this comment section. (How people here are saying that they are vile, obsessive, and miserable while being obsessive and loathing of those who consider having children or have already; to the point of building and joining a community over it). I donāt think what the comments have said in the shown post are right though and is too hostile as well. It feels like both sides lack self awareness and the anonymity increases usersā cohesiveness (but negatively), but decreases common civility as well. :/ The subreddit is a good example of how social psychology works through group think and group polarization.
"parents only do it for their egos" Okay, give me 1 reason why people want kids that isn't selfish. Also anyone who tells us to just kill ourselves are extremely ignorant. They clearly have never been suicidal in their life because if you were you'd know that even then you would be affraid of dying because of the fear of death and what comes after. People fear the unknown.
It's because most of the posts you see here promote hate and isn't about true antinatalism. The sub is also filled with people who misinterpret antinatalism and have a hatred for children. (Nothing wrong with that as I can understand where they are coming from) but natalists won't take you seriously when you say you hate children because they are deemed "innocent". This isn't the sub to express hatred towards anyone. I will say though that all those people who tell us to "simply" commit suicide are incredibly ignorant to the problem and don't know what they are talking about. Pulling the plug on your own life isn't easy no matter how suicidal you are. Most people who do commit suicide take years to do so. Mainly because people are affraid of death. No one knows what truly happens when you die. Is it nothing at all? Just darkness all around you? Total oblivion? "Eternal damnation" like the bible describes? Does heaven or any form of afterlife really exist? These questions are frequently asked. To straight up tell someone to kill themselves makes you a part of the problem and doesn't help anyone. It only shows your lack of empathy.
I donāt end my life, because I have cats and they are my responsibility. Iām not leaving them. Plus I believe in reincarnation and donāt want to end up back here, because I missed some life lessons.
I mean, they're a bunch of brain dead normies. The amount of mental gymnastics you have to perform to think that what we have around us is acceptable is astounding.
I wish I could kms but I'd fail it :\ /hyp Anyways,while I think people should stop producing babies cause there are just too many idiots that exist,like there are people that shouldn't reproduce at all,since they're abusive or have some health issues that they'd make the child suffer too and those who don't simply want them for any reason,get pressured by their surroundings since apparently everyone wants to live like that too.
Uhhh, I think honestly these people come to the thread to see shit like this and also people making fun of those who do have kids. I don't think it's because "we're antinatalists." Also, with the main point being that this world nets more suffering than pleasure, thus, bringing new life into it is immoral, it's quite easy for me to see why they would think "If living is soo bad, then why not not live?" The same parallels exist in other concepts, like existentialist concepts like Nihilism and things of that nature. Keep in mind, I'm not saying they're right, by any means at all, but I'm also not saying that, say, other people in the comments of this post are right, too. Y'all all need to chill the hell out. Just stop talking about how marginalized you are, and stop propagating both their slights on antinatalism, and your slights on how shitty parents are for just having children.
>"If living is soo bad, then why not not live?" Like you mention this is present in other existentialist concepts. It also has a wide variety of answers. The most common I've come across is: "We already are living. We don't know what comes next. It could be worse." With that, we choose to live and we try to make the best of it. Not everyone here is miserable, I'm fairly content with my life.
Isnāt it bad for someone that has shit genes or is disabled to have kids like the kid is going to suffer and youād imagine how kids and people at school are thatās just not good So seeing someone have kids when they are disabled shouldnāt be mocked but shouldnāt be happening and they should adopt if they really wanted to not subject an innocent person who doesnāt consent and ask to be here to carry that weight life is cruel sometimes and the posts in that way are showing how someone crazy people are to have a kid even when they are close to dying and knowing that itās just for there benefit but not the kid clearly and they need to think about the situation but most natilists donāt Though yea the philosophy shouldnāt advocate hate but people are going to view everything here as hate just because people have victim complexes when giving birth and is seen as bad like murder if you go against it like your going to do something bad or tear them down (since most people live to have kids as purpose with how bad life is, or control them to see fit since they have a āmini meā) so they will view even the most rational posts as hate but wouldnāt think twice when the kid suffers, thatās a life who is suffering So thereās a difference between actual hate and ones that are showing the stupidity people go to birth when itās guaranteed suffering generally but definitely if someone is disabled
Again, before people start giving me shit... I am an antinatalist. I'm here because I fundamentally believe it. I am still sickened by the actions and reactions of both sides of this coin.
Given how Natalists are hated in this community this can hardly come as a surprise?
if any Antinatalists read this and are willing to discuss this philosophy with me, pls DM me. I would really like some insight, because to be honest i do not quite understand Antinatalism and i really want to
Don't forget some members from this sub advocate slavery as well
wtf
You do need to admit there are a lot of ppl saying , they would have prefer to never be born ,in this sub
Hell yeah I wish I was never born. Iām here though, and it would hurt a lot of people if I kms. I believe in doing no harm, which is why Iām an antinatalist.
That doesn't mean we are going to commit suicide. It means we don't understand why our parents brought us into this awful world.
You donāt want to but there are some ppl that do seem to want to not be alive
You guys are just as aggressive as the people that attack you
There is some truth, with how depressed lots of yāall are
My neighbors next door, married, both women, both antinatalists Decided to adopt a child instead of procreating I donāt see anything wrong with that.
i don't really understand your comment. depressed people that don't want to continue others' suffering should.. kill themselves? please explain yourself a little further if you don't mind
themself
>why they dont shoot themselves They dont sell shotguns in supermarkets here...
I could care less what any of those morons think
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They said neither of those things
If suicide was legally and painlessly provided to me then I would kill myself. a lot of people would.
The only thing they got right was that I *do* hate my parents for having gave birth to me. They couldn't possibly understand or sympathize the reasons for that though. So in their eyes, *I'm* the bad guy.... make me so mad.
Yeah. Like I enjoy my life... but I have so many reasons not to have a kid, and I have so many problems that \*could\* go much worse, and I wouldn't want to inflict that, or the other possible issues, on a child. And I live in a 'good' country. So... I don't feel like killing myself. But I also don't want to bring someone else in.
We are hateful but they are wondering why we havenāt Shot our selves. The irony.
"Literally lol"
This is the kind of people that contribute to suffering in this world, a major reason to become AN, and they don't even see it...
The second one is true though š¤£š¤£š¤£
The point of antinatalism is to finish your life happily and peacefully, and just not continue the cycle, because those who you birth may not have the chances to live the same peaceful life, and living happily and peacefully isn't always natural. But killing yourself is not what we want.
You say this, but any attempt to actually engage with the philosophy of antinatalism is either, met with no rationale and pure emotional disgust at suffering in abstract, or just downvoted into oblivion for proposing another line of thought?
i've seen plenty of healthy and respectful debates on this subreddit that don't just result in downvoting and silencing. in fact debate is welcome to a certain degree, because one should be able to justify their beliefs if given a pushback on them. the problem is that there are a lot of people that forget that *respectful* part of the debate. im all for challenging beliefs, but nobody needs to be an asshole about it. it's frequently the assholes that get downvoted to hell and back
There's no hate like christian love!
That's just what happens when you're one of the few intelligent people on a planet full of idiots... you get used to it.
Itās almost as if they canāt understand it so they just bash it instead. āDurrrrr scary concept make head hurtā
Tbh I look at those comments and my gut instinct is to think: āProjection much?ā The lack of consideration/ inward reflection from these people is astonishing.
Even if you donāt believe existence is pain, itās still a choice you have no right to make, thatās literally a fact.
I kind of think these people might be right tbh, everyone on here is kind of a miserable cunt. :/
They say we're whingy.... But have you ever met a parent š¤£ so moany and whingy about not getting sleep, not having enough time, the cost of childcare, picking up the kids, having to get a sitter, that they have to work and somehow look after their children etc etc etc. It's almost like they lived in a bubble their whole lives and didn't expect it to work this way and then they still end up having more than one child like seriously????? Did you really think having another would somehow make it easier??
So are you saying those complaints arenāt legitimate or valid? When you complain about whatever it is you complain about, do you want to be taken seriously or told to stop whining? Are you not allowed support and understanding when your life is hard or you have a challenging task? After all, youāve made your choices too.
what a bunch of fucking losers why do ppl hate us so much
Probably because you name call and say āfucking losersā
These kinds of people are part of what makes life so often terrible and not worth living (or at least not worth starting).
They forget that killing self is not easy. Euthanasia needs to be easily accessible
Not that I want anyone to kill themselves, but if itās so hard to do yourself, why should we put that difficultly on someone else to do it for us? If itās not easy for you, why would it be easy for someone else?
Ya, lots of hate coming from both sides
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Okayā¦ there are selfish people who have children. There are selfish people who donāt have children. I would say the selfishness is probably the problem and not the children. I donāt think itās wise to lump people as one or the other based solely on whether or not one has children. Second, not everyone has childhoods they need to heal from. If you have one, then itās good you are working to process that Third, your opinion is not the only one that matters.
š¤£š¤£š¤£ *WE'RE* the "pathetic whingers?" *WE* don't lose our shit when it takes an extra ten minutes to get our Starbucks or have to walk an extra five minutes to the establishment's door from the parking lot. *THEY*, on the other hand, throw full glass jars at people for not being impromptu nannies and destroy $2,000 phones/tablets when their Germ Factories are told they can't use them.
Iāve never thrown a glass jar, empty or full, at anyone. Nor have I destroyed anyones property, for any reason. So THEY cannot POSSIBLY be all of us, rather the ones you have personally witnessed doing such things.
I just don't think it's a good idea to have kids. When you look around and see what happens daily, you realize not being born for so many people would not be the worst outcome..
Because it is the fundamental good of all living organisms to reproduce. It's a basic biological function that has gone awry with you. It's wrong on every approachable level. I'm not hating on you, I wanna kms, we're degens together, but that doesn't change the basic scientific fact
Shit makes me pensove lol What was the original post about?
it was a screenshot of that "happiest child-free millennial" at disneyworld post, but this subreddit's title was censored and "child and parent hating sub" was put over it. the entire comment section was either bodyshaming or disdain for antinatalismš¬
ew disgusting
If you spread your genes on purpose, you have a big ego. Give me one alternative reason for why you should create a new child, when there are millions without parents already.
On the whole this response is absurd, but I have to point out *some* of these responses are directly linked to anti natalists who go out of their way to shame child bearers out there. Can't tell you how many times a day I scroll through and some of you are just as hateful towards people with children or people who want more children. I'm not by any means excusing the people who are blindly assaulting us, I'm simply pointing out there are those among us who are just as hateful.
The only reason I would ever have a child is if Iām more than emotionally, mentally, and financially ready to support them and give them the best life possible. I need some years to heal from childhood trauma and my dadās battle with cancer before Iām ready to be a father. Plus as a black man I feel like thereās already a negative stigma around us not being good parents so I want to make sure Iām the best for them if I ever were to have one
In true Natalist fashion theyāre so distanced from humanity that they advocate for suicide. These are the types of people who have kids when they should not.
Can't see the bigger picture and they refuse to
Idk. I love myself and my life and would never commit suicide. I hate kids and the people who have them because most people who have kids donāt support them by themselves, they always dig into my pockets (taxes) in order to pay for their shortcomings. I shouldnāt have to pay one penny in taxes so that other peoples mistakes can go to school. If they canāt afford to put their kids through school and donāt have the time to teach the kids themselves then they should have had an abortion. I will never get any benefit from my tax dollars paying for other peoples kids. They donāt pay taxes so itās not a mutual exchange. Completely one sided. This is why I donāt care when kids die. I have no natural instinct to care for children therefore I donāt have any. I think most other people donāt care either and they only have them for tax breaks and government benefits.