T O P
ConventionalCynic

Since they're both movements/philosophies set on minimising suffering, I thought there'd be some overlap


crazycolorz5

Well, \>10% of the population here is certainly more overlap than \~1-3% (depending on geographic location) of the general population.


Reputation_Possible

It wouldn’t appear so, it looks like eating vegan isn’t quite as weird here as it is most places but still normal people outweigh confused plant eaters more than 2:1. Sobering reality to those who think veganism is a movement that’s catching on.


NL25V

Yes, I believe animals are sentient beings who shouldn't be exploited and killed for something I don't need. Just as I won't reproduce personally as an antinatalist, I won't pay for animals to be forcibly bred into an industry of suffering.


poopoopeepeefarty

Fuck, I clicked vegeterian by accident. Vegan for 7 years, best decision of my fucking life.


NavyBrue

Thanks for the clarification! Vegetarians be like: I can excuse rape and torture, but I draw the line at murder.


Admirable-Dare4942

Why?


poopoopeepeefarty

I no longer support the animal holocaust. I can’t believe I ever did


[deleted]

Can't speak for them, but for me it's been the easiest way to stabilize my weight and mitigate variable eating habits (eating my feelings, not eating super healthy when I'm stressed and busy, etc). My bloodwork is damn near perfect. And now that I'm good without omni food and I know the environmental and animal suffering costs, there's no reason to go back. I can't single-handedly dismantle that fucked up reality, but I can refuse to personally perpetuate it.


InspectorRound8920

Yep. Since '96


Apotak

I miss the option 'currently actively reducing my intake of animal products'.


No_Layer3495

For many, it’s the most realistic option 🥲


ManagementNo6978

I have drastically reduced the amount of meat in my diet, not completely but I'm working on it.


SIGPrime

that is good progress and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise keep it up


AliciaKMadden

Yes I'm against animal cruelty and causing suffering. Fill in the blank


hikerduder

It's not about being "vegan". It's the question you being an antinatalist. If you are antinatalist, you will make the choice to not bring a sentient being into this existence. If you support animal agriculture, your choice will indirectly lead to bringing several sentient beings into existence. And for what? 10 mins of sensory pleasure? This simply does not align with anti-natalism. It's as simple as that. If you are an antinatalist, you make choices to align with those morals. Choosing to be "vegan" is just one such outcome


toucanbutter

I'm antinatalist because I believe that HUMAN life is suffering, and specifically because we are at the level of intelligence that we are at and yet we enslave ourselves to work and bills. That said, I eat vegan *where possible*, but I am not strict with it.


AliciaKMadden

Intelligence doesn't determine the ability to suffer. Having a brain and nervous system does. Humans are animals, and we all feel pain and suffer


soyslut_

Imagine still using animals in this day and age. Fucking disgusting. End speciesism!


NavyBrue

Right?? All the people who vote “no” also probably call themselves animal lovers and it’s like you have a really funny way of showing it 😂😂


Careful_Biscotti_879

i dont call myself an animal lover specifically because i clap flies


ips1023

Why would you fuck a Fly?


Careful_Biscotti_879

did you read it right? i kill then by clapping them


Friendly_Campaign977

I'm an animal lover because they taste so good mmmm


SIGPrime

“im a natalist because popping babies out is fun”


NavyBrue

Okay? You’re cruel, ignorant and gluttonous like … you win?


ThereIsNoHope72

And you're crying about it, so a double win.


NavyBrue

Well I’m actually laughing 😂 I’m on this sub because I know that humanity is stupid and cruel and you’re just reinforcing that. Glad I know you’re at least not going to reproduce! Keep clogging those arteries in the meantime.


[deleted]

genuinely curious,, are you against people who raise chickens using their eggs?


soyslut_

Using animals isn’t vegan, so yes I am against humans stealing what isn’t theirs. Please take a moment to watch this video: https://youtu.be/yR9BwiukoII


Hatriciacx

What are chickens going to do with eggs? Fertilize them, but then they’re reproducing and aren’t you anti-natalist?


[deleted]

Chickens use alot of nutrients to lay eggs, feeding them back to them is good to help their bodies replenish


No_Layer3495

Chickens will usually go for their feed or anything scuttling on the ground before eating their eggs. It’s not a bad idea to leave some for them, but you’re also going to end up with several rotten eggs that are just going to have to get thrown away (source: I raised chickens in hs)


ThereIsNoHope72

So wait... you're saying eggs are a good food source. Hm...


soyslut_

Yes, but for the chickens - not for us. Eggs clog our arteries and steal nutrients from the chickens that could use it for themselves instead.


ashphantom777

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/food-features/eggs/


soyslut_

Study references and is sponsored by the USDA. Couldn’t be that dumb, right?


ashphantom777

Damn, it also says at the end that vegetables should be eaten instead of eggs because they are the better option, but go off on saying I'm dumb. I guess we shouldn't eat veggies since the USDA said they're the better option. It must be a lie, and they're poison. /s If you're not going to read the entire article, don't even bother responding.


[deleted]

I feed my chickens their eggs too!! They do not need them all, we give them special fruit salads and veggies all the time (after researching what’s safe for them) they are spoiled and free-range. If we never took their eggs their coop would become too full of rotten eggs. Also, eggs do not clog our arteries lmao. They are great sources of protein and other nutrients. You need to be weary of confirmation bias. The top comments of that youtube video are vegans disagreeing with the posters stance.


soyslut_

Vegans don’t eat eggs so that’s incorrect. Eating one egg a day is just as bad as smoking 5 cigarettes a day for life expectancy. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3105270/pdf/kwq368.pdf)


[deleted]

That was debunked in 2017.


[deleted]

For chickens who produce them, as opposed to humans who exploit them, encourage overproduction and then steal them for themselves No one says there no a good food source, doesn't make it ethical to consume them, especially when there's other ways to get the nutrients they provide


ThereIsNoHope72

They all taste like shit though. Let's focus on getting rid of the humans. If we can take out all the animals in the process, so much the better.


[deleted]

>They all taste like shit though. "I don't like the taste so I'll exploit another living creature" Bit of a selfish mindset.


No_Layer3495

What would you suggest as sustainable replacements for leather and wool? /gen


soyslut_

You should be concerned about much more than just those two stolen skins from someone’s body, like down (plucked from birds bodies). There’s way more than this that you should research: https://veggievagabonds.com/vegan-alternatives-leather-down-wool-fur/


No_Layer3495

Thanks for an actual answer instead of a downvote 🥲


soyslut_

Happy to, keep researching - here if you have questions.


TheBigMondo

Im getting there. Im not sure I can ever reach it, but reducing the amount of meat in my diet has worked wonders in how I feel.


soyslut_

What’s stopping you today?


TheBigMondo

I can come up with a myriad of excuses, all of which I know are possible to overcome. Really it comes down to budget and ease, current knowledge of cooking and nutrition, and the slow but steady learning process. I admit I retain my cognitive bias while eating meat.


soyslut_

Nutrition nor budget could possibly be stopping you. Ease is laughable. Plant foods are the cheapest foods on the planet—and further to this, there are vegans living on the breadline in many poverty-stricken countries the world over. Developing countries often don’t have the choice and end up already only being able to afford rice, beans, etc. As with any eating pattern, a vegan diet can be as expensive or as cheap as we want it to be. Generally, however, a plant-based diet is substantially cheaper than most diets out there, given that the staple foods in a vegan diet (and coincidentally also staples in impoverished societies) are things like rice, beans, lentils, potatoes, bread, tofu and so forth. For most of the world, meat is a luxury, expensive item. It’s only cheap in developed countries because the government subsidies the industry. Ten times out of ten, poverty-stricken societies are vegetarian or vegan because rice, millet, beans, lentils, potatoes, tomatoes, apples, carrots, tofu, peanut butter, noodles and other pastas are the cheapest items around. One serving of processed meat per day increases risk of developing diabetes by 51%. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3483430/) The number one source of cholesterol is chicken flesh. (http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics/cholesterol-and-heart-disease) Eating one egg a day is just as bad as smoking 5 cigarettes a day for life expectancy. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3105270/pdf/kwq368.pdf) The number one source of saturated fat is dairy. (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/top-food-sources-of-saturated-fat-in-the-us/) Dairy products have pus. (https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahms/dairy/downloads/dairy_monitoring/BTSCC_2013infosheet.pdf) Milk does not build strong bones. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1602030/) Any animal protein boosts the level of cancer promoting growth hormone IGF-1. (http://nutritionfacts.org/video/protein-intake-and-igf-1-production/) Dairy can increase a man's risk of getting prostate cancer by 34%. (http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics/milk-and-prostate-cancer-the-evidence-mounts) You can stop and reverse heart disease on a plant based diet. (http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/188274) If you eat animal flesh, your chances of getting diabetes is 1 and 3. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2676999/)


TheBigMondo

I appreciate the write up. I have a friend who showed me a big excel sheet or list with every possible argument that convinced me - I think it was from the vegan subreddit actually. It's just a matter of doing is the part Im working on. If doing the dishes is my current battle, Im sure as hell not going to overhaul my entire diet overnight. But as I said before, it's been very easy to reduce my meat intake. I first cut out pork, then reduced beef, now Im almost only on eggs and fish (as far as animal products i mean). It's a process that Im proud of how far Ive come so far, especially breaking the cycle of diabetes and heart disease that has plagued my cursed bloodline.


soyslut_

You’re just a lazy apathetic animal abuser then?


TheBigMondo

yes, i suppose. im not proud of the fact which is why Im taking active steps away from being one.


soyslut_

Every little baby ate that your adult self takes kills thousands of innocent animals. Pathetic.


TheBigMondo

Funny enough I agree with you, but I will say you will probably push away potential vegans by dishing out your ego like that.


soyslut_

Like you? Haha, I think not. The personality of adherents to a movement doesn’t determine the validity of the ideology behind it. For example, if someone against racism is a bad person, that doesn’t mean we can justify racism because some non-racist people are mean.


psafira22

It's people like you who give vegans a bad rap and push people away from veganism, people who are trying and want to be better. You're just so desperate to inflate your ego that'd you'd rather people either be vegan or not, no in between, which is the most disgusting, selfish and pathetic way to think. You need to fucking humble yourself.


soyslut_

Proudly. Just like I bet you’d be if the victim was a human or a dog. The personality of adherents to a movement doesn’t determine the validity of the ideology behind it. For example, if someone against racism is a bad person, that doesn’t mean we can justify racism because some non-racist people are mean.


psafira22

The point is to get the most people to stop, for the fucking animals. You won't get there being aggressive and egotistical, like it or not. The movement is about doing less harm to animals, not to congratulate people who are already vegan. Ffs I can't explain this more fucking clearly. Would you rather be a dick and risk losing potential vegans or be a little nicer and get more people into the movement, causing harm done to animals to decline much more? Which one's more important? Your pride and ego or the animals you claim to love?


soyslut_

Couldn’t help but notice you avoided my comment.


Mammoth_Feed_5047

Good job, and I hope you're able to feel like you have energy to do the dishes :) Life can sure be overwhelming :(


AliciaKMadden

Dude PLEASE dm me with these links copied and pasted!


Infamous_Roll_2353

I have been vegetarian off and on for years of my life. I have only stopped in the past due to health problems. I have been vegetarian again for 8 months and I don’t plan to stop unless I become unhealthy.


decapitatedsandwich

There is such a stark difference between the poll results and the comments section lmao


crimsonninja117

Vegans tend to be the loud minority


guiltymorty

Yes obviously, I’m not a hypocrite. Always feel very odd to meet vegans who aren’t antinatalist or antinatalists that aren’t vegan, it’s literally different bites of the same cake. If you’re against suffering, that should regard all sentient existences.


Sadgirl49

I feel bad I'm addicted to meat


Lovedd1

So I am vegan but the poll wouldn't register my yes. It did register my no tho.


jwcyranose

Too difficult for many reasons, for me. I do when I can.


soyslut_

There’s no excuse for animal suffering. What’s difficult for you?


Careful_Biscotti_879

many fucking reasons buddy are you blind? can you see? can you read? do you speak english?


soyslut_

Name one, why aren’t you vegan?


Careful_Biscotti_879

im speaking for the OP


soyslut_

You are the true OP, answer the question.


Careful_Biscotti_879

i'm ruining my own health and ending up making farmers need to till more soil which destroys more habitats which causes more suffering \+ i meant comment op


The_Happy_Hermit

Personal choice


soyslut_

Personal choices, by definition, only affect the individual making the choice. With eating animal products, there are other sentient beings involved. It is not a personal choice to harm animals for trivial and unnecessary pleasures. Our personal choice ends where someone else’s choices begin.


The_Happy_Hermit

Just because it's sentient doesnt mean I'm not gunna eat it lol Of course it's a personal choice. I'm a person and I'm making a choice. Believe it or not, chickens ain't people


soyslut_

Personal choices don’t end with victims. If I wanted to kill you because “personal choice tho” , you wouldn’t accept that same anti-logic.


jwcyranose

I live where I eat very little meat at all. Mostly chicken. Need be careful about all food. Maybe vegetables not clean.


Thoughtful_Lifeghost

Even tho I'm not, at least I know I'm doing at least as much, if not more, against exploitation of animals/damage to the environment, than any vegan who has kids.


soyslut_

Why aren’t you vegan today?


Thoughtful_Lifeghost

At the end of the day, it's not worth all the effort and stress of figuring out what is/isn't vegan, potentially netting a less enjoyable life in the process, only to be a mere speck of dust on the nose of the animal product industry.


soyslut_

It is true that large-scale societal changes rarely happen as a result of one person’s efforts. Rather, these changes happen when a number of people begin to live in alignment with their shared values. In the case of vegans, more people are beginning to live compassionate lives, and each of them is contributing to a more compassionate world. In this way, the animal rights movement is no different from those of women’s suffrage and racial equality, which were both comprised of many individuals who held in common values of compassion, peace and social justice. On a smaller scale, however, it is important to keep in mind that no matter what another person does, you are accountable to yourself. This means that even though one person alone cannot create the world veganism envisions, you need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror every morning. To that end, it might be helpful to note that each vegan saves roughly 400 animals per year, reduces more greenhouse emissions than non-vegans and uses a fraction of the fresh water resources. Moreover, each vegan chooses not to participate in the market for animal suffering, which makes that market just a little bit smaller and the lives of animals just a little bit better. So while each vegan cannot save the whole world alone, individual vegans are saving a small piece of it, and together those small pieces add up to something great.


Thoughtful_Lifeghost

Tbh, I'm not really sure how to be disciplined enough to take on a completely animal free diet. It seems just about everything I touch has some sort of animal product in it. The task seems excruciatingly daunting. I'd have to restructure my diet from scratch, and figure out how to consistently get what I need, and also have the fortitude to stick to it.


soyslut_

It’s ridiculously easy. Eat everything you eat now, just without the animals. Non-human animals aren’t food, that’s the discipline needed. They are on this planet with us, and not for us. Speciesism is the reason they are seen less than and you need to destroy that in your life. It’s horrific.


eyeandtail

Yes. Results are very telling. Next poll idea: Do you travel by commercial air flight?


[deleted]

[удалено]


xboxhaxorz

> but I would be missing out on many essential nutrients and I just dont think vitamins can make up for it, especially since they are unrelated by the fda LMAO LOL ROFL I am actually dead right now because i lacked so many nutrients, my vegan ghost is typing this, all the other vegans are dead too so we just go around haunting non vegans to become vegan so they can also die and join us


ledphoenix

What about insects?


yam_slice

No, while the majority of my diet consists of plants and fungi, I do consume animal products. However, the only animals I eat are wild harvested (mostly insects, daily cod oil, and occasionally whole fish.) I do this because, while my body requires an omnivorous diet (if I could safely go vegan, I would, I’ve tried and it didn’t work), I do not condone animal agriculture, so only eating wild animals is the best way of getting the nutrients I need while abiding by my beliefs.


Careful_Biscotti_879

so you forage?


yam_slice

Yes, I do. Usually just for insects, plants and fungi occasionally.


No_Layer3495

This sounds so cool


Careful_Biscotti_879

LMAO i just got downvoted by the vegan circlejerk for asking a question anyways, that sounds cool


yam_slice

That’s odd as to why you would be downvoted for the question you asked me. And yeah, I highly recommend foraging/fishing to antinatalists who require omnivorous diets


Salt_Champion_8289

No, meat tastes good.


SIGPrime

that’s like a natalist saying “who cares, children are fun to have”


Salt_Champion_8289

How?


SIGPrime

meat eaters find pleasure in consuming animal products and disregard suffering natalists find pleasure in reproduction and disregard suffering


Thoughtful_Lifeghost

Eating meat doesn't cause the animals to suffer, they're already dead at that point.


SIGPrime

they are created to be killed they wouldn’t exist if not for the demand of meat animal agriculture breeds excessive amounts of livestock which then suffer greatly in factory farms and die BECAUSE people will pay money for it


Thoughtful_Lifeghost

I am not the one breeding them, I am not the one killing them, and my personal dollar ultimately doesn't make a difference. I highly doubt so much as one animal would be spared due to me specifically not paying for me. But even if you suppose it would, it still takes extra steps to say that they die because of the money being paid. It's much more directly accurate to say they did because of the greed of the breeders.


SIGPrime

you don’t have to be the one directly killing to be responsible. if the money dried up, there would be no demand and therefore no suffering and vastly less waste. you are complicit in this system. it exists because of people like you, without you and people like you, it would be defunct. the average american eats nearly 200 animals per year in meat alone. this is done for you, and supported by you. you can try to diminish your involvement by stating you are only a tiny part of the suffering, but can’t a natalist say that them having 3 kids is only a tiny part of the suffering of humanity? complicity in the larger system is approval in the system


Thoughtful_Lifeghost

>the money dried up, there would be no demand and therefore no suffering and vastly less waste. Without my dollar, the money still won't dry up. >. it exists because of people like you, without you and people like you, it would be defunct. Can be said about ALL consumers, not just meat eaters. I had no hand in the foundation of capitalism. Besides, those who order the breeding and slaughter of animals can choose to or not to do so with or without the money from other consumers. >you can try to diminish your involvement by stating you are only a tiny part of the suffering, but can’t a natalist say that them having 3 kids is only a tiny part of the suffering of humanity? There's a whole world of difference between the two scenarios. First of all, you forgot the part where creating 3 kids directly creates 3 kids, but eating meat from already dead animals doesn't kill currently living animals. That's a huge stretch. Plus, I'm not claiming to be commiting a tiny portion of suffering in comparison to all the suffering out there, I'm rather simply not even commiting the suffering you seem to want to blame me with. >complicity in the larger system is approval in the system The system, and the higher ups in it (including the ones directly ordering the breeding and killing of animals) are so much bigger than any 1 individual consumer such as myself. I don't like the way that proper long term shelter is a competition to get, and how exploitive large companies are to their employees, but I still work under one and pay for my rent, effectively being complicit in the system, because I don't want to suffer on the streets. Besides, I never asked or wanted to be born in the first place, but while I'm here, I might as well enjoy life to the best of my ability. As long as I don't have any kids, there's a whole generation of people's money that these corporation aren't getting anyways, which will be more effective than what the vast majority of people do.


SIGPrime

individuals are part of a system, without the individuals the system ceases to exist. if the system is unethical, supporting the system is unethical. i don’t know how else to tell you this. even if a system doesn’t implode upon you leaving it, directly supporting it can be unethical. there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but some consumption is more unethical than others >eating meat from dead animals doesn’t kill living animals living animals are being bred right now to be killed for this purpose. it’s one step removed. it’s still cause and effect if there is a middle step >i’m not committing the suffering you’re benefiting from it at the expense of other beings and the environment >i still work even though it’s exploitative you have to work to live, you don’t have to eat meat to live. >i never asked to be here […] might as well enjoy it this can be a natalist argument for having kids if they enjoy kids >being AN is more effective you can be both which is even better


Salt_Champion_8289

Eating meat ends suffering. Like abortion ends suffering before it begins. This is my perspective on it anyway. I used to be a vegetarian, it wasn't a lifestyle for me.


SIGPrime

it ends suffering that it creates itself dying is a form of suffering as well these animals would never suffer if people didn’t pay for their products because they would never be born. carnivores are complicit in their creation and pay money for them to suffer and die abortion ends life before sentience, animal agriculture does not


Salt_Champion_8289

You sound like me when I was 15.


SIGPrime

15 year old you sounds smarter than current you care to talk about the argument instead of lobbing half baked insults?


Salt_Champion_8289

I wasn't aware being 15 years old was an insult. Just pointed out that you reminded me of how I used to be. You're arguing, you're insulting, it's a waste of time.


SIGPrime

i wouldn’t want to engage either, there’s no good arguments for eating animals in the same way that there are no good arguments for having kids they are systems entirely based on ignoring suffering for selfish gain


Careful_Biscotti_879

i'd like to tell you veganism destroys animal habitats and make them suffer


SIGPrime

https://www.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/comments/yxao98/are_you_a_vegan/iwo5rvr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 already made a rebuttal anything plant agriculture does is done worse by animal ag


SIGPrime

yeah i wouldn’t bother responding either, no argument to be made here very similar to natalists actually


Putrid_Illustrator69

Homie getting downvoted for his opinions, sums up the reputation of this sub across the whole platform.


CannibalFaun

It's my "opinion" that we should bring back slavery because it's convenient for me. It's just my "opinion" though, and nobody can tell me I'm a bad person for having an "opinion". No such thing as a cruel or immoral "opinion". If you downvote me or disagree with me, then you're the bad person not me because this is just my "opinion". "Opinions" cannot be judged. Weird take on a sub that fundamentally judges natalist "opinions" as being immoral for similar reasons as to why one might judge a non-vegan (selfishness; unecessary suffering, etc).


Putrid_Illustrator69

You are free to have your opinion just like everyone else.


SIGPrime

opinions that actively harm others unnecessarily are not tolerable opinions


Putrid_Illustrator69

I don't care.


SIGPrime

then why post on an ethics sub?


Careful_Biscotti_879

yup


AwesomeTrish

Damn that's so true. I dunno know man, sometimes this sub is toxic af.


Putrid_Illustrator69

Yeah, i probably avoid engaging for that reason despite being a long time member.


TrashSaw

same


starglitter_witch

I wanted to try cuz i eat very rarely meat and is chicken breast or pork(i love pork ribs and bacon) but( if i m asked to cook i ll fry some potatoes, an egg and some cheese and that s it, your diner is served)...but i enjoy eggs and cheese and i won t replace them with anything. But when i saw how toxic both the vegan and vegetarian communities are i was like: hello i would like to order some bbq pork ribs. Edit for those who are confused: i rarely eat meat, i can give up on it. Is started to be very expensive anyway and as long as i live with mom, without a man in the house that demands cooked food and meat, we simply eat what we have mostly potatoes, vegetable soup, cabbage salad, eggs. Also i work in an environment where is hot and i don t have a refrigerator so the food spoils very fast. So i preffer to take a cabbage salad, normal salad or some cheese sandwiches.


[deleted]

[удалено]


starglitter_witch

Read it again. I didn t say i don t eat meat. I eat rarely and i can stop from eating meat. I love eating pork, but good pork ribs are expesive( good meat is expesive). I can buy so many other things( like vegetables)with those money than enjoy a portion of pork ribs.


miken322

Not a vegan but I don’t eat meat every meal, maybe like 2-3x a week


soyslut_

Why aren’t you vegan?


mowa-mowa

i eat meat for health reasons, going vegan/vegetarian is unsustainable for me and i would get ill.


P1SS_0FF_TR4SH

Clowns downvoted you, I got you though 👍🏻


ArabianHorse18

Was a vegan but I'm not any more, I realised I was just committing self harm for a lost cause


Careful_Biscotti_879

basically


Friendly-Marketing46

I am a vegan, for health reasons more than meat reasons. Also, looking at meat and animal products (eggs, chicken, sausage) absolutely grosses me out. I have taste aversion to animal products.


xboxhaxorz

You are actually a plant based dieter, vegans care about animals not their health, its a common misconception though, plant based dieters can wear leather as leather does not affect your health


Friendly-Marketing46

Okay! I’m a plant based dieter! I like that better. I hate having to explain myself about not being really a vegan but I am (?) I like plant based dieter!! Thank you for commenting that. ❤️


Careful_Biscotti_879

that exists?


Friendly-Marketing46

Not all animal products. I shouldn’t have said that so generally. Like butter doesn’t really repulse me. Milk, any cheese, any sort of cream sauce, any type of meat 🤢 I honestly don’t really care all that much about the ethics of being a vegan, I simply do not like eating meat or consuming products made from animals.


Careful_Biscotti_879

oh


Friendly-Marketing46

[“In most cases, food aversion concerns meat.”](https://www.alimentarium.org/en/fact-sheet/disgust-and-aversion-food)


AggressiveDistrict82

When I die I’m being green buried. The earth will consume me after a lifetime of me consuming it. Doesn’t make it even but I do try to lessen how much meat and animal products I consume.


Careful_Biscotti_879

for me, it's a no. the soil tilling process destroys animal habitats. if farmers want to plant massive amounts of crops for vegans to eat, the farmers must clear the soil by tilling it. this results in the death of many animals out there because it destroys the habitat that those animals are in. that and also the fact that this may kill animals in a very unpleasant way called starvation. on top of this, you're also pretty much depriving yourself of nutrients and being skinny as hell, and you're also gonna need a whole lot of supplements. there is also a minor reason which is basically just not wanting to restrict yourself to a diet


Chimommy69

…. What do you think livestock eats?


sneezysnowball

ikr LOL carnists indirectly consume way more plants than vegans, where do people even come up with that stuff??


Chimommy69

I think they just think livestock exists in a vacuum, they can’t put two and two together.


No_Layer3495

Grains, which are infinitely more sustainable than some of the vegan alternatives they’re being replaced with


SIGPrime

something like 98% of energy is lost making beef. plant energy. plants are grown to make livestock and most of the energy is thereby lost. it would be much more efficient to directly eat the plants we feed to livestock. a gallon of milk requires magnitudes more gallons of water to make than alternatives, especially when compared to oat milk. it takes more land. it takes more labor. it takes more sentient beings born and dying. any complaint you can levy against plant agriculture can be levied against animal agriculture at a harsher degree. animal ag also has multiple other issues that are unique to it


Frantheman087

I literally gained weight(muscle+fat) when I went vegan, and it was through eating a whole food plant based diet, not even regular vegan alternatives. I have also taken only vitamin d and b12 for almost a year and that's all I need. Vegetables are the most nutrient dense foods on earth too. Just want to negate that misconception since it's common and does not make much sense. Raising animals for meat on top of planting crops is more destructive to the environment. I have also heard that animals in general also take up way more space, but I don't have many sources for that so I'm down to discuss about that with others.


TheBigMondo

The best solution Ive seen to this land problem is vertical farming. Check it out, it's some neat stuff.


Spiritual_Oven_3542

Eat meat regularly it is very good for you


Chimommy69

This is what the kids call “cap”


Spiritual_Oven_3542

Yikes


Cowody

Need my meat for my gains no cap plus it tastes good


QualiaQuack

Needing to eat dead animals to gain is soft as fuck. You can get big without eating the tortured carcasses of defenceless animals.


Gamerdiamond35100

Then tell me how else are you gonna get protein. Food not just plants but animals


QualiaQuack

You can get high quality vegan protein powder, and eat tofu, setan, beans, tvp. It’s really not that hard. Apparently people are incapable of googling the macros of anything that isn’t chicken breast.


Careful_Biscotti_879

meat tastes good, agree


Gamerdiamond35100

Real


starglitter_witch

I like how whoever says they enjoy meat are downvoted. That s why i still believe vegans are toxic. You can t have an opinion.


SIGPrime

saying meat tastes good is like a natalist saying kids are fun to have it’s not a good justification for the suffering it can cause.


soyslut_

Personal opinions or choices that end with victims are no longer personal.


SStinger_

If someone’s opinions were racist or homophobic they’d get downvoted too. If we see animals as being worthy of life and other people say “hahah meat tastes good tho” without providing any actual justification for the murder of innocent animals, they’re going to get downvoted.


Cowody

I mean, people who don’t agree with anti natalism downvote natalists here, therefore this community can be toxic too.


starglitter_witch

Now if i think better i don t even understand why this question is here on this sub


QualiaQuack

Getting downvoted on social media = can’t have an opinion. How fucking fragile are you.


Careful_Biscotti_879

you have been downvoted by the vegans because you cannot have an opinion


Gamerdiamond35100

Real asf bro I need red meat


Human_Individual_928

Veganism is fine for adults as long as they make sure to use supplements to get the proper nutrition. I do not believe veganism should ever be adopted by anyone whose body and brain are still developing.


xchicken_wings

You do realize a large majority of the world is vegan from birth?


Human_Individual_928

Are they really? Name one group that if vegan from birth. Pretty much every person on the face of the planet drinks breast milk or animal milk from birth to about 2 years old, with the exception of those that are fed plant based formula. Very few cultures exist that are vegan. There are many that have heavily vegetarian diets but include fish and other seafood. Strictly vegan diets are only possible in the tropics. Anywhere that is vegan outside of the tropics is only at the convenience of modern world.


xchicken_wings

Mother’s milk is vegan. Like all mammals, a human mother produces milk for the sole purpose of nourishing her baby. In fact, it is the only food on this planet with the sole purpose of feeding humans. I’m concerned why you think mother’s milk isn’t vegan. Care to elaborate?


Human_Individual_928

Doesn't make it vegan. By your argument all milk is vegan.


xchicken_wings

You are so dense.


Human_Individual_928

Congratulations on resorting to insults instead of defending your argument. Being vegan literally means not eating anything derived from animals. Unless you are now going to argue that humans are not animals after you acknowledged they are in fact mammals. Any more insults to hurl since you have lost the argument?


The_Happy_Hermit

Nope. I will forever and always eat chickens if I can. It's not that i'm comfortable killing animals or condone farming factories but I reckon i'll do it to a chicken if I get desperate I don't care what the haters think. You can give me all your moral reasoning, I'm still gunna eat the chicken. maybe fish. I've seen people raise and eat chicken + eggs. I could happily do that I reckon.


Careful_Biscotti_879

you are being downvoted because this sub has become a vegan circlejerk


The_Happy_Hermit

The sub in general is retarded and not even remotely on topic half the time. I've just taken the stance that a lot of people here are angry as fuck and will probably get angry at me for whatever. Like I dont doubt there are some properly fucked up humans here that would gladly hurt me over the fact I'd willingly eat meat.


Careful_Biscotti_879

this entire sub is either a vegan circlejerk or "GRRR I HATE PARENTS"


Roxxion

I will keep eating meat no mater what. This is the one thing I wont forsake. Lets instead focus on reducing population in general.


Careful_Biscotti_879

you got downvoted because this place is now a vegan circlejerk :/


QualiaQuack

Crazy that the sub devoted to the ethical position that it is wrong to create sentient beings destined to suffer would be again animal agriculture. It’s not like there is a direct logical connection between arguments for antinatalism and arguments for veganism or anything like that.


Roxxion

Shame... Meat is beneficial and necessary for physical development... I guess ideology is more important than health :/


Careful_Biscotti_879

yup also, the ideology is only good on a surface level, 50 million bees are used for almond milk while one cow is used for normal milk, veganism is nutrient deficient and also causes more suffering in the form of pesticide and soil tilling (destroys habitats which causes suffering)


ShakyBrainSurgeon

Altough more of an symbolic act, I also reduced my meat intake drastically, but also not a vegan here...


Human_Individual_928

Congratulations on resorting to insults instead of defending your argument. Being vegan literally means not eating anything derived from animals. Unless you are now going to argue that humans are not animals after you acknowledged they are in fact mammals. Any more insults to hurl since you have lost the argument?


Treadtheway

A plea to all Vegans! On behalf of all catering companies- can you pretty please pack a snack with you or eat before you attend an event? The logistics of prepping 1-2 vegan meals for a group of 200 is not an easy task. Secret- most likely it has touched some form of animal product anyways- be safe don't mark the check on the diet needs response at the next conference you attend!


xchicken_wings

Perhaps consider not using animal flesh & secretions in the food ? I really can’t tell of this is vegan circle jerk material or you’re being serious. If it’s the later you are seriously dense.


Careful_Biscotti_879

latter likely


Treadtheway

Catering companies in order to stay in business have to serve animal product. Until the majority of ppl are vegan it just will not sustain a company. Same as restaraunts.


ppyrosis2

Touching animal products doesn't make something not vegan


No_Layer3495

Veganism isn’t really a goal of mine, rather animal sustainability. Ideally I would have a chicken coop of my own, there’s no harm being done to a chicken that’s already laid an unfertilized egg if it’s being raised responsibly. Say what you want about the effects of animal products on the body, i need that affordable protein to function and am willing to take those risks, but the biggest problem is not eating animals, it is the scale at which we do, which forces inhumane conditions. Meanwhile, many vegan alternatives are not sustainable and cause an incredible amount of waste, and every single vegan I’ve met in person is frail and frequently ill. Many of them even rode their high horses with pride while stooping for a slice of cheese pizza when it’s most convenient. The community as a whole feels very toxic, it’s not one I want to be a part of when sustainability is a better route to go for animals, humans, and the environment


xchicken_wings

Beans are way more affordable than eggs. They seem cheap because the animal agriculture Industry is heavily subsidized by the government. Have you ever tried to buy a dozen eggs from the farmers market?? They’re normally $8 or more. You should watch “Game Changers” on Netflix. All top athletes that are vegan. Including Patrik Baboumian, the worlds strongest man. He has been vegan since 2005. “Someone: How can you be strong as an ox without eating meat? Patrik Baboumian: Have you ever seen an ox eating meat?”


Careful_Biscotti_879

beans have less digestable protiens than meat does