T O P
Kakyla

Crossover thrash and sludge would like to have a word with you


[deleted]

Someone had to say it. Also add crust punk and powerviolence.


xXP4IN_C4KESXx

That’s how the krusty krab got its name


[deleted]

Fucking A.


resinfingers

Mr. Krabs stans Goolagoon


AfraidNotToLive

I've completely forgot about powerviolence, time to listen to ACxDC while taking a shit.


Practical_Echidna917

i never understood whats the deal with powerviolence. is just heavier hardcore or something?


[deleted]

Powerviolence is basically extremely fast, raw, chaotic hardcore, which became a precursor to grindcore (which had more metal influences, rooted in death and thrash metal). E.g. Nails, Weekend Nachos, Rorschach. It is not a wide genre in terms of bands though, as others took powerviolence as root in their sound but played other styles as grindcore and crust.


Orion_420

Rorschach is metalcore/mathcore though


Practical_Echidna917

okay thank you!


__gozu_

Charles Bronson a lot of PV have a big noise influence too like Man is the Bastard or Combatwoundedveteran


LeFisheAuChocolat693

Everything right, just one small clarification - it uses thrashcore (aka fastcore) as it's base, not hardcore. Though thrashcore already is derivative of hardcore, so you know


Fornicorn

Ooo check out fake dust, it’s my favorite to show anyone new to the genre


Practical_Echidna917

okay but im absurdly picky so there is a big chance i hate it lol yeaah it doesnt really make any sense to me. thanks anyway lol


Fornicorn

https://youtu.be/ea8fimbjS4c no harm no foul if you dont


zms11235

Powerviolence isn’t metal at all


[deleted]

I know, but it's still brutal 🤘


__gozu_

no one said it was


CreedOfIron

I like me crust blackened.


LeFisheAuChocolat693

Powerviolence isn't a metal genre dude


BuppUDuppUDoom

Crust! "Charged by punk poisoned by metal"


__gozu_

(and dbeat) yes these are all the most metal punk offshoots what is surprising?


fridge13

Every fucking time. I also wish to add power violence to the list of under apriciated metal and hardcore crossbreeds.


Beartrap-the-Dog

Gross. No.


Raider37

Just to be clear I like all of these genres, the meme is poking fun at how metalheads here will complain about certain genres not belonging because they're rooted in hardcore punk but make exceptions for certain things that they like.


resinfingers

Gatekeep or die, poser /s


ParadiseLost91

And it's hilarious because a lot of those deathcore bands are heavier and more brutal, than whatever dad metal the gatekeepers are listening to. Just makes the gatekeeping even funnier. Like, the deathcore bands that have come out in recent years are really heavy, and they are mostly just death metal, with a pinch of hardcore. So saying "it isn't metal" is ridiculous. They 100% have a metal sound, in ways of instrumentation, rhythm, lyrics, atmosphere, they are basically metal in every single aspect, with a pinch of hardcore.


LaveyWasDildos

Yea the idea that someone could hear Black Tongue or Humanities Last Breath and be like "gross not metal" is baffling to me


spgtothemax

Because it’s not heaviness or distortion that makes metal what it is. The bands you named are from the post-hardcore tradition which shows through no matter how heavy their riffs are.


MeatbagAmongUs

Can you define metal for us?


spgtothemax

No


LaveyWasDildos

Humanities Last Breath... Same genre as Fugazi?


b00tiepirate

Idk sounds like metal to me


_Axtasia

Being heavier isn’t a metric of what’s metal or not metal. Nobody older than 12 says that


DKN88

Opeth flair lmao


_Axtasia

Yes, your point?


DKN88

Opeth is a mid dadcore metal band


_Axtasia

You’re a troll account, never expected an intelligent answer in the first place


DKN88

Lmao, what i said is 100% right. I like Opeth and can play a lot of their songs, but they are dadcore as fuck


_Axtasia

What does a band being “dadcore” to your standards have anything to do with deathcore being heavy doesn’t make it metal?


DKN88

That nowadays, with most metal bands being heavier and heavier, earlier dadcore bands like opeth and metallica are closer to rock than metal. So using them as point of comparison makes no sense Metallica, slayer, opeth and similar dadcore bands are entry-level tiktok bands, and dont represent what metal currently is


Orion_420

Yeah but I think it comes from where the genre started. Modern metalcore and deathcore come from "scenecore" and gatekeepers still use this stereotype.


DARKMAYKR

One hundred percent this! Elitists are something else


[deleted]

[удалено]


The-Score51

What? Metalcore evolved from 90s Metallic hardcore which is a direct evolution of traditional 80s hardcore (as well as early melodeath). Shit has more in common with Pantera than it does with circle jerks or fugazi.


Darkseidwas

First wave metalcore comes from melodic death metal, like At the Gates and Carcass, with moderate hardcore and thrash elements. Only second wave and after have post-hardcore background, and not every band does.


crackhitler1

Bands like Converge, Earth Crisis, Botch came way before what you consider first wave metalcore.


Weird_Cantaloupe2757

I don’t hate those genres because they’re rooted in hardcore punk, I hate them because they suck.


fankin

Posers gone pose


MrGaminGuy

Man fuck Grindcore all my homies love Crust-Punk and Crossover-Thrash


[deleted]

But crust punk is not so distant from grindcore, in fact grindcore is rooted on hardcore, and crust, crossover, and sludge are very related. That is why bands like Corrupted (which is a sludge/doom metal band) used to tour with grindcore bands like Excruciating Terror. Dystopia, even if they are a sludge/crust band, they have lots of grindcore, death metal, doom metal, noise rock, and stoner influences in their music. Everything is so mixed up.


MrGaminGuy

I know Grindcore is punk that mindset made me more open minded to the sound but I still don't like it Grindcore just doesn't really hit any spots for me


[deleted]

I started liking grindcore by listening to sludge. Everything is rooted to the *core*.


MrGaminGuy

I love Sludge, Classic Hardcore, Crust, Crossover, Beatdown, Powerviolence, etc but I haven't been able to get into grindcore I don't know why it's just not really my thing


[deleted]

Maybe because it's so fast and chaotic. I don't blame you. My least favorite is crossover since many bands are like Municipal Waste or Suicidal Tendencies copycats nowadays, yet I admit there are some bangers in the genre like Cro-Mags, D.R.I., Leeway, and Ludichrist. Also try Integrity and Rorschach. They were the pioneers in metalcore.


MrGaminGuy

Crossover is actually probably my favorite since I'm such a massive fan of Thrash Metal i hate the copycats and pizza thrash bands though I don't care for the music that is all just about partying


Orion_420

I've been able to get into grindcore by Wormrot - Hiss. So maybe you'll be able too. Now I like other albums but still they are not as good as this one for me


CreedOfIron

Crust punk is more groovy n melodic.


esinfernum

idc if anyone will hate me for this but I think post-harcore can be really good


zaruke03

I actually don't think i've ever heard any post-hardcore bands, can you give me some good examples?


fridge13

Helmet, mclusky, future of the left, ruben, pissed jeans I like my post hardcore chunky and angular...


[deleted]

Helmet is love ♥️


GlobeTrekker83

Helmet's Strap it On, Meantime, and Betty are some amazing albums!


nickbriggles

At the drive-in


MrGaminGuy

Fugazi and Quicksand are really good they have a completely different sound to the later Post-Hardcore bands but don't expect a sound that has metal influence classic Post-Hardcore was still in the Punk sphere


LowZestyclose66

Check out some Coriky. Another good Ian project.


From_Deep_Space

[Shellac](https://youtu.be/AC7Pkwmllow) [Jesus Lizard](https://youtu.be/GhHwuPNA-j4) [Unwound](https://youtu.be/rrB2i9e_QHc?list=OLAK5uy_meZ4nkycC0xyYvD8ozuYyjJnAJEX2VD-8) [June of 44](https://youtu.be/oAm2eEm8Uuw) [Rapeman](https://youtu.be/JI4keToT1jM)


MonadsSuck

The album [No Place](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywvLNbMcn1c&list=PL-XbTEkQt3TY4DkXKRsj5nAwbCES9RVdo) by A Lot Like Birds is really good. I would be in remiss if I didn't mention [Thursday](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsT4_gc8LOk&list=PLO6Z0-J5q7A_axIaba7S1KIIwCidI_I4s). I've heard them called Emo, but if At The Drive In counts as Post-Hardcore, then I think they fit the bill. I'm kind of cherry picking rowdier tracks, but Post-Hardcore can also chill out pretty hard at moments. It's definitely a genre with a fairly wide brush. Edit: Glassjaw is Post-Hardcore? I thought they were some kind of Post-Rock. Damn, and people say Metal sub-genres get complicated.


LaveyWasDildos

Refused is probably the safest if you're tryna stay in the 'macho' punk rock vein. They're just anti authoritarian swedes so it's metal type folks playing punk. If you're not afraid to admit you feel things you could try glassjaw but the vox might take some getting used to. Drive Like Jehu if you just wanna rage and not worry about what key or time the song is in.


thegooseisloose704

Afi is my favorite band, granted if you're coming into phc from metal you're probably not gonna find what you like, if you're looking for things leaning more into the metal side you should check out chiodos, the fall of troy and maybe some dance gavin dance.


SUck0ck

Thrice


esinfernum

orchid, saosin, At the drive-in and glassjaw are some of the bands I like, I haven't digged that much into post-hardcore yet so they're all very mainstream. If you want the same thing but way more "metal" then post-black is a really good BM subgenre to dig into (same fucking thing as post-hardcore but now it's black metal)


Orion_420

There are a lot of good post-hardcore bands lately. Recently i've listened to Fleshwater and can recommend. They're inspired by Deftones though so it's not really for metalheads.


BernieSimpers

+1 for Glassjaw


dcnairb

saosin’s first album is a permanent download on my phone


Getabock_

Alexisonfire is that good shit.


Gutek8134

I may be partially wrong, because distinguishing it from post-metalcore is hard, but: - Architects (from "For those that wish to exist" onwards) - Bad Omens - Annisokay - "The Act" and "Color Decay" by The Devil Wears Prada


BernieSimpers

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XUnTOhwQcdk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dnFhC1g0SD8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w1loFbI4NjQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_t0p3s8hs1g https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jHTxgXiUd2M


MrGaminGuy

Classic Post-Hardcore is the best but it's not really a fusion with metal


Orion_420

Yeah i've noticed that dud too. OP probably doesn't even listen to it and he thought that post hardcore/metalcore bands are the same as post-hardcore.


MrGaminGuy

Let us pray that he discovers bands like Fugazi and Quicksand


fridge13

Based take. Mclusky/Future of the left are one of my faves of all time


Brendenation

Woah woah woah hol up, mathcore? Are we not even allowed to like Dillinger around here?


Jeff_Damn

TDEP haters are just mad 'cause they got their arithmetic tests handed back facedown.


Gutek8134

You're only allowed to listen to The Grocery Escape Plan here /s


donderchief

Like what you want to like. Calculating Infinity to this day still sounds so innovative and badass.


KingDingus_23

All metal subgenres are equal but some are more equal than others


Odd-Spinach-4398

Mathcore is fun Does deathgrind count?


AlchemyStash

Deathgrind counts. So does goregrind. Grind is cool.


Arctic29-1

I FUCKING LOVE LAST DAYS OF HUMANITY I FUCKING LOVE GORENOISE


BraveT0ast3r

Muh Metal-archives says no goregrind.


Eseless

I accept other people's opinions and musical tastes, but still I can't understand genres like grindcore


zaruke03

I don't listen to grindcore very much but bands like Brujeria or Wormrot are always a good call to listen to.


Eseless

Thanks, I’ll check them


[deleted]

Brujería was good badass on their first two albums (and their debut is their only grindcore release). Later albums lack the same punch and energy that Matando Güeros had. And their latest releases have been so bad. Like they became a joke band.


dark_wilderness

I saw them on their tour with Napalm Death last year. I knew absolutely nothing about Brujeria going in. Holy shit I was so caught off guard by the whole Mexican drug cartel/gang schtick.


MrGaminGuy

I really want to like grindcore but I cannot do with the gurgling vocals in most bands i have heard Powerviolence is way better in my opinion


Eseless

I like more simple, melodic and maybe more groovy genres (eg death/melodeath/brutal-death). For me, powerviolence is way better than grindcore, but it still gives a strange feeling


MrGaminGuy

For Death Metal I only consistently listen to Old School Tech Death since I love the technical riffs and vocals which aren't too "brutal" every grindcore band i have heard had that gurgling style of vocals which i hate so that's a massive deal breaker


Eseless

Totally agree, I can’t stand almost all -core vocals


MrGaminGuy

I love classic shouty hardcore vocals but modern Metalcore with it's whiney clean singing and generic boring Deathcore voices only noteworthy voice imo was Trevor from Black Dahlia Murder most of the -core genres are just really boring and lame and fail to capture the energy of hardcore


Eseless

Yep, that’s true


KillerKian

Check out [rectal smegma](https://youtu.be/wuAS7MGy9UA). Something about their gurgle just hits different imo, just don't take it too seriously.


Buranara

You should give Death Posture by Caustic Wound a shot. It's a solid deathgrind album that you might like.


Eseless

Thanks, I’ll try it


BraveT0ast3r

Prowler in the Yard by Pig Destroyer is a masterpiece representation imo


Eseless

Thank you for the recommendation


KeeboXian

Try out Hiss (album) by Wormrot, it’s fucking great


Eseless

Yep, thank you. Maybe this will change my opinion, probably grindcore is not so bad


WolvesInSpaceMarines

Yeah i don’t get the Love for it either. It really is just 30 seconds of noise to me.


Bine_YJY_UX

Mathcore like Botch, Dillinger escape plan, and lots of post hardcore are okay with me. Grindcore like napalm death, pig destroyer have noise-rock/math rock post hardcore aspects to them.


[deleted]

PIG DESTROYER rules. They shifted from ultra chaotic grindcore to very painfully slow doom metal in Natasha.


LowZestyclose66

I'd add Ion Dissonance also.


cerealnykaiser

"Screamo" Iam not gonna say anything but...


KeeboXian

On a similar note, what is everyone’s thoughts on Nails? Personally I think Abandon all Life and Unsilent Death are great albums


Brutesmile

Love Nails, especially You will never be one of us


Bubbly-Brick

I like them, they catch a lot of shit for being cringe and not tr00 tho. They’re like fake power violence/grind. Kinda in the same boat as Full of Hell. You’ll get pooped on for bringing them up to power violence/ grind fans, which is understandable to me even though I like them. They’re like what power trip is to thrash.


ElectricLightningE19

This demonstrates that grindcore fans are clowns, but also that we still accept them. Topical and wholesome!


foosballfurry

This sub is a hell of an echo chamber


LaveyWasDildos

Yea especially cause a meme I posted on the non exclusive side in this exact format got removed lol


ParadiseLost91

There's a non-exclusive side? I've been pretty sick of the gatekeeping in here, so I'd love recommendations for subs where deathcore isn't excluded


PM_ME_UR_DOPAMINE

Extra reverb


SataNikBabe

This is too accurate for elitest metalheads that it hurts 😂


NaEGaOS

nah, mathcore is great


ritamoren

me 🤝 cybergrind


Ultravod

Grindcore in style if not name predates the rest of those. Napalm Death's *Scum* was 1987, the same years as *Scream Bloody Gore.* Grindcore shares a shit ton of its musical DNA with death metal. As a genre it doesn't have to prove anything to metalheads. I say this as someone who had *Scum* on cassette in '87. I'm still not entirely sure what the rest of those genres are as I've never really heard examples of any of them (and plan on keeping that way.) Oh, random tangent: You know how "You Suffer" is a meme (and sometimes [an amazing one](https://www.reddit.com/r/MetalMemes/comments/vcgv4d/family_guy_wheres_my_money_but_every_hit_plays/)) right? Well, in the late 80s, I didn't even know it was a *song.* It was more or less impossible to identify individual tracks on a tape when they were so short. It wasn't until I got my first CD player in 1990 and bought [this double album on CD](https://www.discogs.com/master/1633618-Napalm-Death-From-Enslavement-To-Obliteration-Scum) that I figured out the names of specific songs.


[deleted]

Macabre were perhaps one of the first grindcore bands (as well as one of the first death metal bands). Their influence on the genre is so overlooked. Also, their music is ridiculously technical and eclectic even for death/grindcore standards. I call them the "Rush of grindcore".


Outrageous-Stay6075

What the fuck is mathcore?


Caustic-Acrostic

From wikipedia >Mathcore is a subgenre of hardcore punk and metalcore influenced by post-hardcore, extreme metal and math rock that developed during the 1990s. Bands in the genre emphasize complex and fluctuant rhythms through the use of irregular time signatures, polymeters, syncopations and tempo changes. Early mathcore lyrics were addressed from a realistic worldview and with a pessimistic, defiant, resentful or sarcastic point of view. >[...] This led to bands such as Converge, Botch, Coalesce and The Dillinger Escape Plan to establish the genre. ...I guess if born of osiris didn't shower?


Orion_420

What does Born of Osiris have to do with mathcore?


Caustic-Acrostic

Are they not a core band with weird time sigs and tempo changes? I only hear them when a buddy of mine has em on, and I mostly just tune it out. Not knowledgable on core stuff myself


Orion_420

Yeah but from what i remember they're djenty type of deathcore. Mathcore sounds a lot [different](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiKjcrniJKY) than that


asasnow

AFAIK, its basically hardcore punk + math rock.


GINJAWHO

The fuck is mathcore?


Bubbly-Brick

Screamo goes hard. I’d take Pg.99 and Portrayal of Guilt over average death metal any day.


DirtyFuzeMain

I personally love Deathcore :)


Scary_Bayou

That's like, your opinion man


Tyhsedo

Valid! Crossover works too


[deleted]

💀 SLUDGE METAL 💀


Quizlex

Mathcore is the best sub genre here. Dillinger Escape Plan alone is better than any grind band.


Mont_918

is Callous Daoboys mathcore? I love that band


Quizlex

Yes, and they’re great. Celebrity Therapist was my favorite album of last year.


BernieSimpers

Downloaded this album when I read your comment a few days ago and just finished listening to it. Holy fuck is it good, I immediately started it over after the first play through.


Quizlex

That’s awesome. Always love to hear more people discovering them.


AlchemyStash

Meh.


TapewormInYaMum

These are all great don't be a Coward smh


hcraven0803

No Pity for a Coward


ItsPetahhhh

I dont mind Hardcore fusion genres as a whole I just dont like metalcore/Deathcore ​ Like Grind Crossover thrash is cool Love sludge


[deleted]

Some bands, like [Locust Resin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0grqpvsrK-Y) and [Kingdom of Sorrow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5aNe4U0AwE) mix sludge and metalcore. Clinging to the Trees of a Forest Fire mixes grindcore and metalcore. Twitching Tongues mixes doom metal and metalcore.


Mont_918

I try to like deathcore but I never get past a few songs from one band, it's all the same Drop A/B riff


LowZestyclose66

Porngrind can hang out also.


If_you_have_Ghost

It’s all good except Deathcore. Can pick several bands I like from all those others. Deathcore is just so insufferably boring cos as soon as it strays beyond death growls, blasts, breakdowns, and being balls to the wall heavy all the time, it becomes something else. It has a really limited sonic palette compared to everything else.


ParadiseLost91

Hate to be that person but I feel like some deathcore would make you reconsider. I highly recommend Brand of Sacrifice and Fit For An Autopsy (and Lorna, obviously, but I'm sure you've heard them). I definitely feel like they break the mold and aren't just non-stop wall of sound. With bands like Slaughter To Prevail etc, I totally get your point. As much as I enjoy them, I need to mix it up because it becomes same-y. But I definitely feel like in recent years we've seen several new deathcore bands really break the mold and try other things, and it sounds really cool!


If_you_have_Ghost

Just had a brief listen to both the bands you recommended. FFAA I can see have some elements which mark them out from standard Deathcore but it’s only the non Deathcore elements I appreciate. And even then they aren’t amazing just not terrible. I don’t like the production, it’s feels very over produced and I don’t like the guitar tone or the vocals. Born of Sacrifice, Jesus that’s fucking terrible. I hate everything about it. Way way way over produced, awful bleepy synthy shit everywhere, horrible vocals. It’s just not for me at all. I’m sorry, I genuinely tried. I have heard Lorna Shore, of course, and I just find them dull. The whole genre seems like it’s trying way too hard. Edit - I meant Brand of Sacrifice


asasnow

honestly i *could* like lorna shore, like they have a lot of potential, but i find the "symphonic" elements make everything feel very same-y, and they use breakdowns a bit too much.


If_you_have_Ghost

Agreed. I mean I don’t think I’d like them anyway but I don’t like those elements at all.


Bubbly-Brick

I’m not a big fan either. Some stuff like Annotations of an Autopsy sound just like Dying Fetus and is ok. Personally I’m not huge on brutal death metal though.


If_you_have_Ghost

Ditto. Brutal DM is another one I struggle with. Non stop brutality becomes boring very very quickly. I need some dynamics in my brutality. Like Goat of Mendes era Akercocke!


Bubbly-Brick

I don’t mind brutality but I prefer a black metal atmosphere. So I prefer heavier stuff like most War Metal or black/death like Teitanblood or Antediluvian. Akercocke rips. Voices and The Antichrist Imperium are also great as far as Akercocke-y stuff goes. Also Carcass clone deathgrind stuff like General Surgery, Exhumed, Pharmacist, etc I think is a better sound than brutal death.


If_you_have_Ghost

Yeh I’m with you. I like atmos over brutality. I’m currently liking Slugdge, Hath, and Suphur Aeon for example. Edit - The Antichrist Imperium are great. Voices are yet to convince me.


Bubbly-Brick

I think it’s the vocals. Brutal death metal vocals are just too cheesy for me. Early Voices is good. After London they’re kinda meh.


If_you_have_Ghost

Yeh I agree on that too. Gotta do something more interesting than subterranean grunting. And pig squeals can fuck right off.


Teglement

I like exactly two deathcore bands. Shadow of Intent and Fit for an Autopsy. (and actually some of The Acacia Strain's sludgier work is decent, too) All the rest of them fall into the exact same pit of despair.


If_you_have_Ghost

It just all sounds exactly the same to me. And it’s so dull. And breakdowns suck so damn much.


Orion_420

You must have pretty bad ear if you think they sound the same


If_you_have_Ghost

Or maybe I just have different tastes. You know that’s ok right, and you don’t have to insult people just cos they don’t like something?


Orion_420

I don't care that you don't like it. You thinking it's all the same is like some dude listening to pop said that all metal is just screaming and wall of sound. You have an untrained/bad ear Edit: Shadow of Intent clearly has melodic death + symphonic influence and Fit for an Autopsy is groove similar to Gojira


If_you_have_Ghost

Lol ok, sure, why not.


Ltnumbnutsthesecond

what the fuck is mathcore?


Teglement

Metalcore derivative with complex time signatures and uncommon rhythms. Dillinger Escape Plan is probably the most obvious example.


Ltnumbnutsthesecond

jesus christ how many sub sub genres are there?


Teglement

Not as many as you'd think. There are actually more jazz subgenres than there are metal subgenres.


LowZestyclose66

Ion Dissonance is another example of Mathcore.


Orion_420

Post-hardcore is not a metal fusion


ender_198

Mathcore, post hard-core, and screamo aren't metal they're just flavors of hardcore


__gozu_

mathcore isnt real yall probably calling bands like chiodos post hardcore and screamo and bands like killswitch engage metalcore good deathcore like the red chord is pretty accepted in the metal community grind isnt clown music. delete this


Validname11111

Screamo and Post-Hardcore aren’t fusions though?


Domino117

Goregrind is the best 🤘


GodhunterChrome666

Elitist filth