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MrFixemall

I think presumed. I don't think Kyle's team is contesting it.


RedditZamak

> I think presumed. I don't think Kyle's team is contesting it. We have good video of the circumstances in the last two. The video with Jojo is only fair, but I'm pretty sure no one thinks someone fired at him at the same time, over Kyle's shoulder or anything. I recall some youtuber who discovered a shell case under one of the burnt out cars at the dealership. He called the police who showed up and took it away as evidence. Kyle of course was not the only shooter at the dealership.


MrFixemall

I assume they could ID the wound tracks as rifle vs pistol so without other rifle shots being heard or brass found, that would be enough to say that it is reasonable that Kyle was the only shooter to hit these three people.


RedditZamak

He did seem to twist as he fell. People made much hay about Jojo being shot in the back. The video is at least clear enough to debunk that. Plus the eyewitness. If someone else shot Jojo the exact moment Kyle did, they would have to have been on a grassy knoll or something, well out of the shot. I'm going with the single gun theory. I can't remember the type of casing found. I did not bookmark the video. But we know Joshua J. Ziminski fired the first shot, and someone presented a video proposing someone else was shooting into the air at the scene too. I don't know if J.Z. had a revolver or what. He claims the handgun was stolen a few days later.


PinkTrench

Lol stolen by a storm drain.


Ok_Plankton248479

Well that seems lame considering the shooting started by someone else and several people in the vicinity had guns. You'd think that would be the first thing they'd have to prove. Even in a police shooting they investigate that first.


MrFixemall

If he said, "It wasn't me who shot", I don't think he could claim self defense then. And self defense is the only way he doesn't get convicted.


Ok_Plankton248479

Sure, but before they got to that point, it should have been established without a doubt that he's the actual shooter. It's never a given.


wasabiiii

He literally admitted to it. There's nothing to contest.


bobbybudnick7

Do you know anything about trials? This is absurd.


Ok_Plankton248479

Yes, I do. And also about science and physics.


bobbybudnick7

Good. Then you know this is absurd, pointless, and a waste of time.


fishstickssuck

You're drawing at straws dude. Kyle has already admitted he shot those people. There is video evidence that he shot those people. The case is entirely about deciding whether or not he was justified in shooting them. It's not looking good for him.


Ok_Plankton248479

I'm asking a question of fact. His say so doesn't make it a fact. I once held up the leaning tower of pisa by myself. I'm aware of how facts and science work.


fishstickssuck

There's also a thing where you don't waste the courts time with stupid arguments. Judge: are you arguing that your client didn't shoot these people or are you arguing that he shot them in self defense? You don't get to argue that you didn't shot them, but if you had it was justified.


Ok_Plankton248479

We aren't in court. I'm not arguing any such thing. It's a basic question of fact that has to be established by science, not whatever some dingo on the internet thinks might have happened. If you don't know the answer, then stop messaging me with your rants.


fishstickssuck

I'm pretty sure they have factually established Kyle shot those people. I just don't understand why you're so hung up on this.


fishstickssuck

I'm pretty sure they have factually established Kyle shot those people. I just don't understand why you're so hung up on this.


Ok_Plankton248479

Facts? Why I'm hung up on facts? You're "pretty sure"? Don't talk to me until you get through grade school.


wasabiiii

Kyle is using a self defense defense. That's an affirmative defense. Which means admitting to the underlying facts of the action of the charge. There's no reason to do anything.


Ok_Plankton248479

Before they decided on a defense, the facts should have been established. It's never a given.


wasabiiii

Pleading not guilty by self defense means you already agree that you in fact did the homicide, but that you have a justification for it. Kyle admitted to those facts. If he instead wanted to plead he did not commit the homicide, prosecution would have to focus on that. But he didn't.


anon83345

But in this case, since the prosecution claim that he is the one that shot Rosenbaum in the back that makes it a significant issue that that bullet came from Kyle's gun regardless of the self defense claim.


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anon83345

I am just replying that there could be circumstances where it could be significant, I do not know if it is applicable to the facts of this case.


Seerezaro

"....Its not uncommon in self defense cases for bullet wounds to be found in the back, bodies often twist when they fall" -CNN Anayst.


wasabiiii

Where have you determined that the prosecution is making that claim?


TigerCat9

I think the thing you’re missing here relates to reasonable doubt. You’re right that the prosecution has to prove, first of all, that Kyle shot the people. But there’s video of him pointing his gun at people, a shot rings out, and the people react in ways you’d expect if they were shot. The prosecution in presenting that video has shown he most likely shot those people, since the video clearly appears to show exactly that. If the defense wants to create a reasonable doubt about whether Kyle was the one that fired, they have to provide some evidence that he didn’t, even if it isn’t as clear as a video. That they haven’t tried means they know they can’t even create reasonable doubt on this point, which is, of course, not their actual defense anyway. It’s like in Chauvin, the defense raised some fairly goofy possible excuses to try and create reasonable doubt that Floyd died from the knee on his neck. One was “maybe the exhaust from the tailpipe killed him!” But compared to the video of Chauvin with his knee on Floyd’s neck, it takes more than just spouting unlikely hypotheticals to achieve reasonable doubt.


Ok_Plankton248479

I think the thing you're missing here is that's not what I asked.


TigerCat9

It’s the only thing you could have asked on this subject that is actually intelligent, though, so I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.


Ok_Plankton248479

No.


TigerCat9

LOL fine, stick to your guns, as it were. Twenty people telling you you’re wrong, we’re probably just not understanding your point LOLOLOL


Ok_Plankton248479

No, you just can't read.


RedditZamak

The only person shot where we don't have 100% clear video is Jojo's death. We have fair video in this case.


Ok_Plankton248479

Not to belabor the point, but I've seen a lot of videos on this and none of them are clear. Certainly not scientifically certain of any fact. How many pics have you seen of people holding up the tower of pisa? I'm asking if there is a definitive test that anyone is aware of.


seraosha

They'll run ballistics as needed, as the .223/5.56 round wounds in a very specific manner, compared to the various handguns that were present/being fired during the events. But yeah, despite the "yes, I shot that guy", I'd like to have evidence collected in a scientific manner, because hey...better to be sure, and I'm sure they have or will.


ShakeN_blake

Four shots by Kyle in rapid succession (0.76 seconds) followed by 3 shots from an unknown source that was never identified.


PinkTrench

Bro have you like seen the videos? Huber was almost in contact with the barrel, and GG was like 4 feet away.


Ok_Plankton248479

That doesn't answer the question that was asked.


Key_Push_2487

It was stated at the beginning that this is not a case of, "Who done it". Questioning the validity of ballistics would also be questioning if Kyle shot 3 people or if someone else was to blame. The Judge, Defense and Prosecutor all agree on this. This is a case of, "Was this self-defense". I think it will all come down to Rosenbaum, the Jury's verdict on this will be the dominoe that pushes the verdicts for the other charges. Right now, I think it is 50/50. Descriptions of the seconds before the first shots firing and the position of KR at first made it sound as if Kyle stepped to the side and shot JR in the back. That poor description, later clarified could be the thing that throws the Jury.


Ok_Plankton248479

Why can't you read? You wrote a lot of words and none of them are answering the question that was asked.


Key_Push_2487

Why can't I read? No guy, why can't you read...or use words properly? This is not a case of, "Did KR shot someone". No, there is nothing to **presume** when it comes to the ballistics. You can get a dictionary from Amazon for $5, or look up the meaning of words on google before you use them.


Ok_Plankton248479

Why can't you read, or use words properly? You should take your advice and learn English. Where in the question did it ask what the case is "about"? Nowhere. I don't give a shit what you think about the case. That's not the question that was asked. You flunk 2nd grade.


Key_Push_2487

Here is the definition of presumed: >suppose that something is the case on the basis of probability. There is no supposition in this trial. Kyle was the shooter. Those are his bullets. These are called fact. You can have a fact or presume something, not both. What really kills me is how dumb you are. I give you a direct quote from the judge, "This is not a case of whodunnit". I give you agreed facts between the Defense, Prosecutor and Judge, that Kyle was the shooter. You have 1,000's of hours posted throughout the internet that has Kyle, on video, shooting these guys and you come out and want to die on the cross over the word, "presumed"? So get a fuking dictionary and study up.


Ok_Plankton248479

You're an idiot.


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Ok_Plankton248479

Making stuff up isn't going to improve your reveal that you can't read.


feelin_cute

There is no evidence to suggest anyone else other than Kyle was dumb enough to fire off a semi-automatic combat-grade lethal weapon and inflict deadly force on others within the vicinity at that time.


Ok_Plankton248479

Is that the question asked? You fail.


feelin_cute

Kyle failed.


Turbulent-Ad-4881

He did pretty well taking out commies


Ok_Plankton248479

So you're like Kyle then.


feelin_cute

Minus the part where I murdered anyone


averion305

Yes he murdered 3 people in cold blood. He's a terrorist, lock him up so we can move on.


Ok_Plankton248479

He didn't. And that's not what was asked. Learn to read.