Hunters! Don't sleep on Athrys's Embrace this season!
By - HAPPYSQUID57
Also don’t sleep on the Monte Carlo combo, as at only needs to do *damage* not kills, and can rock anti barrier, meaning you can have all three. Might be my solo lost sector and GM load out this season
Yeah it might not be the best exotic choice in the world, but the melee recharge on Monte Carlo is definitely underused. You are a melee machine with it.
Plus it basically has Swashbuckler built in and reloads on melee kill. Absolutely amazing. Constant melee action
Only negative is an uncharged melee needs to be stabbing with the bayonet. Bungo plz
The other negative is no catalyst so no orbs. But otherwise yes Monte is great
It also has rly bad damage for some reason
I think it does fine damage for its archetype.
I mean, maybe it’s because I just don’t use ARs and don’t like them, but Monte Carlo without stacks of Markov chain never seems to be all that effective. Ofc, I love Monte Carlo, but it just doesn’t seem viable for high level content unless you spam charged melees
Pretty sure that's just due to that archetype of AR having garbage damage for a PvE weapon in general.
Why does that archetype suck then?
Because bad damage.
I'd be willing to argue it's not necessarily a case of bad damage, but more accurately without Markov Chain x5 its damage doesn't feel *impactful*. 600rpm autos are not as crazy as they were Season of the Worthy, but they still do decent damage in PvE and PvP. The drawback is the individual bullets are low damage, and do not allow a good amount of peek-play, which is highly rewarding in GMs/Lost Sectors/Crucible.
Instead of seeing the enemy's health bar get chunked down like you would see from a Hand Cannon/Scout/Bow/Pulse, it gradually depletes while you are forced to remain in direct line of sight for the kill time (Hardlight withstanding due to its riccochet perk). The gunplay of it doesn't feel very rewarding because you just hold on the trigger and maybe strafe a bit, rather than popping out and taking out enemies in only 1 to 3 or 4 bullets.
The actual damage/kill time of 600rpm Autorifles is pretty damn equivalent to other primaries. I believe in crucible, they are at .8 seconds, which is pretty comparable to 140 Hand Cannons and other popular guns. You just have to act like Zoidberg, riding a unicycle, while juggling flaming sticks and shouting, "Look at me! Look at me!" the whole time
I was confused by this too - forgot that 600 rpm autos got a nerf... 2 seasons ago? Can't remember exactly. It was kinda subtle but is a lot more glaring now that scouts and handcannons are doing what they should be in pve. I was very disappointed in new prophecy auto rifle - I grinded out what I thought would be a destroyer! But it just didn't slay like I expected it too.
Poor DPS. Why? You'd have to ask Bungie's sandbox team about that.
Yeah but one melee kill gives max Markov.
Granted, I wouldn't object to a buff for the archetype in PvE, but it's not bad.
Yeah, I love Monte Carlo, but it’s practically useless in higher difficulties because melee kills in nightfalls are suicide
Not for ranged melees, what this post is specifically talking about.
Yeah, that’s true. I’m just not sure what the best ranged melees are. Hammer for sure, is withering blade any good? Idk I have like an hour on hunter
autos in general just suck
I know. I was just under the impression Monte Carlo specifically had lower damage than other autos
oh, idk have not used it in a long time
This season just get your orbs from your melee ability
Yeah that works this season. Hopefully next season there’s either a Monte catalyst or they implement the change where you don’t need a catalyst to make orbs. They’ve said that’s coming but no ETA when. Seems like something they’d drop as part of the expansion.
with the glaive coming next season it needs to be added
No orbs is pretty much a deal killer.
Why? I feel like there are a ton of other sources of super energy, especially if you have nearly unlimited melee charges.
I was thinking maybe a wellock build running sunbracers. Keep the melee up charge and go grenade crazy. Rock a fusion rifle and you pretty much have everything covered
This is called “suncarlo”. It’s a good time.
I run MC with Claws of Ahamkara and Null Composure on stasis. The charged melee can instantly reload your guns, so you can proc reservoir burst like three times in a row. Plus if you really go all in you can get near infinite fusion ammo, all three champion mods, and go crazy on both trash-clearing and boss DPS with particle deconstruction.
Monte Carlo is my main weapon for my top-tree sunbracer warlock build
Why not bottom tree for even more explosions?
The buffed damage after a couple precision hits is pretty significant though
On warlock this season, I've been using Monte Carlo for a feckin fantastic stasis melee/fusion rifle build that is just completely unfair. Unlimited freezes, overshields, crazy stats, nearly unlimited reservoir burst shots on Null Composure, plus all three champion mods. On stuff without champions, the orbs of light and elemental wells just don't stop coming. That gun is super underrated when it comes to opening up possible builds.
Plus, anti-barrier auto, so you got it all covered!
I just started playing and managed to snag Monte Carlo from Xur my first week in. It's so much fun with the new Warlock stasis subclass.
if you walk into a gm with monte carlo as your exotic when a plethora of mods exist to help recharge your melee, youre definitely getting laughed at
Cool bro do you think I give a fuck what you think of my load out? Didn’t realize you were playing and not me
Gambler’s Dodge will also make sure you keep getting those knives as often as possible.
Doing that solar melee ability kill triumph this week and I used gambler dodge maybe twice with ophidia spathe
It was just constant knives if they killed something
Way of a thousand cuts, Ophidia Spathe, Prometheus Lens, and armor mods. You’re never not throwing knives aside from the occasional Prometheus burst to get burning target kills if you messed up. It’s no end game build but it’s fun as hell in strikes and gambit or astral. Add some champ mods and it may be more viable too.
Young ahamkara’s spine is solid too, tho you’ll spam nades too. Great for gambit so you always have a tripmine for damage.
One of my favorite builds, ran it for most of y2. Yas is no joke
Titan throw baby hammer.
How's this now?
Gambler's dodge refills your melee if used nearish enemies.
As I run Bombardiers, I almost exclusively use gamblers dodge near enemies. I never noticed it refilling my melee... velly interesting.
How? That is the whole point of gamblers dodge. Gamblers replenishes melee and marksman reloads weapons
Ah. I guess I'm using marksman then. (Sweet B and MG reloads)
I really need to get out of my meta one of these days.
Why *were* you using game let's dodge then, did you just think the difference was animation?
His brain got damaged by bumping his head to ceiling repeatedly
The problem was that I wasn't thinking at all. I use Marksman's Dodge.
I use gamblers dodge because it moves further and is easier to use to bounce behind corners.
If it didn't do the melee refill I'd still use it.
I never noticed it either or when i did try and notice, it never worked. Make sure you’re dodging around enemies. I never realized you had to be near enemies for it to work until sadly about a month ago lol
My problem is I use Marksmans Dodge, and I am apparently rather dense.
Understandable, marksman’s dodge is better anyways IMO lmao but gamblers in PvP is undefeated. Even if it doesn’t work 😂
Gamblers dodge near an enemy (like a stunned champion) refreshes your melee. So you can get your knife up as often as you can dodge, which is a lot
I'm at 101 mobility, so, yeah. 11 seconds I think.
Don’t forget that you should plan ahead since proccing the empowered weighted knife prevents you from stunning overloads
what does this mean? im somewhat new sorry
I think they mean that the knife can't be both Unstoppable and Overload at the same time, it will be Anti-Overload normally thanks to the seasonal mod, but the Exotic perk getting activated will turn it Anti-Unstoppable !
Basically you can't do both at once. The seasonal mod allows your basic throwing knife to stun overload champions. The exotic allows rapid precision hits to "empower" your throwing knife for extra damage and granting it the ability to stun unstoppable champions. If you have the empowered buff that enables it to stun unstoppable champions you can no longer stun overload champions with it. So you have to be in the correct "state" buff vs non-buff depending on which champion type you want to use it against.
Granted if you're using gambler's dodge, Monte Carlo, etc you likely won't have much of a problem getting a new throwing knife which means you can just "waste" the empowered melee and get a fresh one if you need it to stun an overload champion.
I've been running Athrys's Embrace purely for fashion, but never actually thought about this. Nice
It's the exotic I never see other people using, but rarely ever comes off my hunter. People also sleep on the damage that it allows. Strengthened heavy knife will do like 50% of a champions HP on a headshot and will oneshot pretty much anything that isn't a miniboss or more.
Have you tried it with withering heat yet?
Embrace your arthritis
I love this exotic so much because it is one of the few things in the game where it is SUPER good but just barely bit good enough to warrant a mass campaign to call its nerf.
It's held in line in PvP by the fact that you can really only use autos and pulses to proc the perk, and you can't run stasis of course.
Messenger Athrys got me to the Lighthouse in solo queue though, it is incredible if you are already using a pulse and gunslinger
Wouldn’t last word pair well with it?
Ehhh, you'd have to land the three crits on full auto, any delay and it won't proc. Wouldn't be easy. I know a lot of top players only use TLW as full auto when backpedaling a shotgun rusher, any other time it's mostly pressing trigger on your own to make sure you have the accuracy.
Of all the hand cannons though, yeah last word is the only one you could use it with. Still much less effective than a pulse though
Alright that’s a fair explanation as to why you would use pulses over the HC’s
It could also proc with crimson fairly easily I would think? Haven't tried it though
crimson is much better
Buckaroo, the cowboy gun stays on
you asked, partner...
Yeah, last word goes with athrys and lucky pants
See I’d love to rock both but damn Ahamkara’s Spine with clutch grenades comes in handy tbh
Last word and lp is great even in pvp
Oh I know, just so many solid options
Monte Carlo and Athrys with melee kickstart…
I wouldn't recommend it. You'll rarely proc the perk in pvp with the last word.
Athrys is still amazing even without the perk, the fact that the second bounce gives it good tracking allows you to hit people around corners. This is great for finishing weak Guardians after a fight or even prime them before the fight.
I’m calling it, the second shatter dive gets nerfed Athrys will be the meta, and then get nerfed immediately.
As a PvP Athrys Embrace user. I genuinely believe that if this Exotic was half as popular and properly understood and utilized as Stompees. This sub would hate it more than Shatterdive.
But the fact that only like 6 Hunters use it most people have never had to deal with oneshot knives hitting them around corners.
I am kind of confused. The knife throw needs to be a headshot to be lethal and the animation takes like 1.5 seconds, so if you try to use it in a gunfight, you're just dead. It's faster and easier to just use a gun.
How is that good?
Athrys Embrace has a perk that after landing 3 crits quickly you will get a damage buff on you throwing knife that oneshot body on top of having a second bounce that tracks.
What makes it good isn't using it DURING a gunfight. It's the ability to get a free pick before and after the fight. Imagine playing Trials and a Hunter lands some crits on your teammate or even kills them. Next thing you know you get oneshot around the corner before you can even peek the Hunter who's across the map.
Arthrys makes the knife one shot to the body and gives it insane tracking on the second bounce. It is literally like a truth rocket homing in on anything remotely in front of it after that second bounce.
It reminds me of top tree dawnblade at D2 launch where it was so good but because no one used it, it was never even talked about.
The funny about top tree dawnblade though was that people for some reason said it was bad so it kept getting buffed so maybe the same happens with throwing knives.
Literally have been waiting for tomorrow to get it
Just an fyi, I believe it only works as an overload weapon when the exotic perk isn't active. Otherwise it's just unstoppable I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong
Correct. I was testing it last week and you have to make sure 'Enhanced Heavy Knife' isn't up.
Yup, but you'd be running gamblers with this exotic, and you can blow the strengthened knife and the buff goes away, so you can use the overload after.
Oh yeah for sure. It's still important to know it's not a double mod.
Just saw this comment, op should really mention this.
Oh ok, this makes much more sense now. Thanks for clearing that all up!
I wish masterworking it gave kill tracker for knives
That's a good thought. Imagine if Masterworked exotic armor tracked other things, such as Curiass of The Falling Star tracking bosses killed with Thundercrash.
Me and you both
And in PVP it's fun as hell. V-Wing pretty much procs it in 1 burst. Add 2 melee kickstarter mods and double outreach. You will have it up all the time.
I've also seen people use no time to explain as it can create basically a kinetic arc soul after a certain amount of precision hits
Never thought of that pairing before! I've always been a gridskipper main in PvP though.
Sorry, I should have clarified a bit better. V-Wing procs it to max in 1 burst if it's a precision burst. Basically 5 hits pretty much maxes it buff timer to 30 secs. Throw the insane tracking knife and dodge and you are back up to 50% melee.
Dang didn't know that! Will give that a go today then!
How the 50% back?
Double melee kickstart mods on stasis arms and double out reach mods on class item. When you throw the knife, kick-starts proc and give you like 25 percent back instantly. Then you dodge to proc out reach and you are between 40-50%. I run with 100 strength and have them back in about 15 seconds
I use it with gridskipper and witherhoard, gridskipper procs the perk really fast (in addition to just being a really good pulse) and I can force people into positions more suitable for meme knife kills with witherhoard. The amount of cheesy throwing knife kills ive gotten at the midtown B point this iron banner has been ridiculous.
(V-wing is certainly a good choice too).
The one thing I think this exotic needs in the PVE space to really stand out from other choices is for the weighted knife to do full unmitigated damage to unstoppables when procced. Right now it just kinda tickles them for the stun and then you absolutetly have to burn that champion down or you might not have another knife to stun them with.
Yeah the cheese is fun. Sometimes I like just using it to make sure I kill someone straight on with the knife without headshot since I suck with precision knives.
The cool thing is that using this exotic has actually made me way better with the precision knives than I used to be because I’m more willing to take risks with it, no telling how many times I’ve whiffed the knife only to have it come slingshotting back to bean the guy in the back and finish him off from where I’ve done a little damage to him with my primary. I take more risks with it which gets me practice and now I’m like 50/50 in a duel where I can get the precision knife.
Thanks for the inspiration! I'll have to give this a shot later. I've been running stasis this season, but I miss solar.
If fashion is a problem, I just run the celestial set with it. Looks decent.
Use LW Great Hunt armour, Specifically Chest and Boots, a few helms go nice with the set, use the default shader, which is Dreaming Cast.
Apply Dreaming cast to Athry's.
The exotic pairs very well with the set.
Edit: Clarified some details
Which shader? 🤔
New Monarchy Diamonds, Valkyrie Zero, Bloody tooth and Warbrick all look good on them imo.
Yeah what shader is that? Are you meaning the LW gear hunt armor or the season of the hunt armor?
Pretty sure the shader is called Dreaming cast, and OP is referring to the raid armor set.
I forget that you don't have to use a shader for everything lol
If you have the Moonfang set it also looks great.
With the well armor mod system getting expanded might also want to look into the Well of Ions mod. It boosts the damage to an insane degree. You can practically take down Legend chanpions with a single knife.
I had totally forgotten about that mod, I'm so glad you brought it up!
What's a good way to get an arc well on solar subclass?
Overcharge Wellmaker. Any finisher spawns 2.
Have you ever tried hitting a blinking dodging teleporting overload captain with a knife?
I like pairing it with DMT. Gives me old west vibes.
I haven’t slept on this since it came out. Conversely I’ve actually slept IN this a lot since it came out. Knifeslinger FTW.
Does Thermoclastic Strike have a hidden perk that refreshes your melee ability when you stun a champion?
its not hidden. it says it right in the description that it does this
I never knew that Athrys's stunned Unstoppables. I was looking through exotics one day and decided to read Athrys's perk and I was like "Wait, *what?*"
Then I remembered the Overload mod this season and I knew I needed to get it to test if it worked. A couple runs of a Legend later and I got it. I have literally never used the three-shot Gunslinger outside of using Nighthawk. I'm really glad I have been getting to experiment with subclasses I never used before, between bottom tree Gunslinger, bottom tree Dawnblade, Nova Warp, Code of the Siegebreaker... I hope they don't patch the thing with Necrotics and bottom Dawn since it's so much fun
what's the thing with bottom tree dawn and necrotic?
From my understanding it makes it so that all of your burn effects also spread poison along with your melee, meaning that grenades and super spread it as well. Pair it with Thorn and you have insane amounts of ad clear, but it's a little unclear if it's intended to do so or if it's a bug since they haven't patched it yet. I hope they don't because it's not even that strong and is actually fun
If you pair this exotic with a pulse like no time to explain you can keep your knife buff at max almost all the time
Dude, you are totally right i will try this now
Interesting I'm surprised Athrys' can proc 2 different champion stuns while guns can't.
Athrys is my new default exotic this season, for exactly the reasons listed above :)
There's also the seasonal mod that weakens champions when you use a solar ability...
I actually thought about this yesterday, and did testing this morning, it is definitely very nice to have for nightfalls, and you have bottom tree golden gun up so much for bursting champions in higher level nightfalls, this may just end up being my nightfall setup this season, that way I don’t have to worry about champions as much for GMs
Or just run melee dodge if you want them back faster.
I’m not sleeping on it I just can’t get the damn thing to drop ):
i actually tested it at the start of the season. the way it works is getting headshots makes the throwing knife unstoppable. when you have the buff that makes the knife unstoppable it will not stun overload champions. its a little difficult to use properly because in pve the perk is so easy to proc by accident, your knife might be unstoppable when you need it to be overload.
Trench barrel with athrys’s for champions sounds wonderful
Oh yes, it's definitely good. I just struggle with taking off lucky pants
It won't stun them if the exotic perk is active though. You have to keep an eye on that so you know which champion thing you're gonna want to use.
For anyone wanting a video demonstration, Kimber Prime has a 45 sec vid on it.
I wondered what build I was missing when it came to running solo lost sectors with taken in them...
running Athrys Embrace with Divinity is one of the best, cleanest pleasures in this world.
Run it with Ager's instead. It won't self proc the perk as easily. But frozen enemies take 2.3x charged melee damage.
I’ll try it but I’m fucking lethal with Divinity and Athrys it’s got quite the bar to meet for me!
For PvP ager's won't be better. But if you can hit the headshots, you will do so much more damage with the ager's.
my build is for PvE, I don’t have the balls to run a trace rifle in Crucible lol.
But pulse rifles
If the enemy is frozen they will take 2.3x melee damage as well. I hit for 600,000 with my knife against a lost sector boss
Divinity plus Athrys Embrace, don't knock it till you try it. The bubble from Div makes the crit spot huge, plus it does additional damage as well. Kill by hitting the Div bubble counts as a critical kill and gives you back you knife
Pair it with Divinity and profit ;)
Ager's is actually better. Frozen enemies take 2.3x more damage from charged melee. And that stacks with all the other melee bonuses.
What damage bonus from frozen?
Charged Melees do 2.3x damage to Frozen enemies. Even the uncharged melee does 2.2x damage. Don't know why, but it's a thing.
Even works in PvP. Freeze a guardian and melee them. You will do 220 damage. Normal melee is 100
I made a post about it a few days ago
I hope we're going to see more armors with anti-champ capabilities.
Stasis build, does the same thing and has amazing ad clear you always have 2 stacks of your knife and your super regen is super fast.
Are you saying Athry's works with shurikens?
No i should of been more specific, by same thing i meant the Stuns overloads and gives back your Knife or in this case Shuriken's. As well as the Shuriken's being fantastic for add clear. I run Mask of Bariks or however you spell on that build.
You’re missing the point about Athyrs knives working on unstoppable as well. If you’re just after melee stuns mid tree solar Titan is probably best as you can get that hammer charged up to nutty damage and never lose it.
Solar subclass? I sleep.
Don't sleep on this thing that's been around forever, guys!
Has this been genuinely tested thoroughly, I already tried this combo and as previously suggested back when solar overload melee was a thing in season of hunt or worthy (whenever it was).
THIS DOES NOT WORK.
At least it didn't for me, just like weapons can't stack mods, the melee cannot either.
Having arthrys and overload mod only made it unstoppable.
EDIT: Welp, I scrolled and saw that the weighted knife bonus dmg proc prevents the overload, as I said, I hadn't tested it thoroughly and didn't think that would be an issue.
I retract my statement.
Mods and intrinsic abilities using charged melee are especially useful now, since we can separate their inputs.
No more worries about minimum range for your throwing knife, or burning your melee on some Thrall, you can shank the thrall and still have your knife ready for the ogre.
i can't hit shit with throwing knives
As much as I want to agree, why run an exotic when you can run a mod instead. Chances are because PD is a thing, you'll probably be running fusions, so might as well slap on unstoppable fusions instead of using up an exotic slot. Then you can run stasis to take care of barrier champs and you have the melee for overload champs and that's all three.
The only time I could see you running that exotic is if you don't have access to stasis, but then I don't think that you have access to the exotic anyway. Or if you absolutely need more than 4 mod points in your arms slot.
I never even thought of trying that.
Eriana's/Athryss and you have all 3 champs covered but imho eriana's is wasted without lucky pantaloons
I've used these before and used them in IB this week for some fun.
The knife used to bounce it would hit, it rarely missed. Now it doesn't always bounce and NEVER hits.
Was they nerfed? Or are they bugged?
The enemies will feel the despair of a million chanclas being thrown at them.
I don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but if the perk on athrys's embrace is active, you can't stun overload champions with the same knife, the perk needs to be inactive, and then the mod that lets solar melee stun will work. If you can use that without any problems, sure, go for it, but for me personally I will probably be running star eaters with bottom tree, and be an orb factory for my team (I almost never play nightfalls below master, and even master I often 2 man with my mate, so what is viable probably changes based on that)
Wait, hunters have built in champion mod one of their exotic armors? I want one for Warlocks.
Keep in mind you can reset knife on precision kills so you can use Monte to set it up, knife to kill and reset melee while reloading mag.