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OOP literary said “I wanted to intervene but my husband didn't think it was our business.” SMDH


Her husband really needs to attend some form of therapy. He’s seen a very terrible example of how to treat a wife and family. Also even though MIL’s stances make sense, the kids not having a connection to their mother would have negatively impacted them. Making them even more likely to take in the disgusting Dad’s bs over trying to help their mother. I’m glad the MIL is in a better place now.


OOP seems legitimately more trouble that her son doesn't get to see her precious FIL than anything that's happened to the MIL. As soon as I saw "child model" I knew the MIL went through some shit.


She seems more upset to know that her son adores someone so awful, that she had her son around someone so awful, and that she's gonna have to explain to her son that he isn't gonna be able to see the person he adores anymore.


> nd it would still fuck the children up too. Hoepfully they can change this pattern is this generation and te Thing is we don't know, he might have very much wanted his mother's love and now deems it his mission to love his children where his mother did not love him. You don't know children interrupt things.


No we don't know, hence the person above suggested therapy. Even doing "good" or "the right things" for the wrong reasons can cause long term issues.


Also, she thinks this woman is worked to the bone and thinks people are taking her money but she’s happy taking her money, too?


Yeah and ngl the part about them driving up in the car she bought for them after saying “we have nothing tangible to give back” made me wonder how true that even was… also this woman put $60,000 into her son’s wedding to help give them what they wanted but at the same time OP can’t forgive the lady finally having a mental breakdown/unalive attempt and cutting up the dress. That poor woman seems like she had such a rough life


> I didn't include her in wedding planning much because we weren't close. MIL's mom asked me to so I included her in one thing and she didn't speak the whole time. Imagine someone paying 60k USD for the wedding and not inviting her for anything.


The FIL likely took all the credit.


No wonder she didn’t say much at the one thing she was invited to. She probably assumed she was just there as a thankless bank account like she had been in basically every other aspect of her life.




The kind brought up in an abusive household. That’s one of the terrible things about abusive families; every family member becomes warped by it.


So true.


Someone who was taught she was less than and still thinks it. She was abused by everyone. If I were OOP I would be so worried.


Yea it's learned behavior. In his core memories he always saw her bullied and that was just ingrained into his mind. The phrase *monsters aren't born, but created* comes to mind.


Friends of mine had a ROUGH first few years of marriage because her husband had only seen his dad either berate, scream at, or literally beat his mom until they divorced when he was a teen. Took a lot of therapy to get past it and for him to learn how to handle a conflict. That shit is 100% learned and takes moving a mountain to break. They've been married 7 years now and are the healthiest couple we know but holy shit that first year was rough. I sincerely hope OOP and her spouse are able to be ok and that her spouse doesn't turn out like the FIL. I can't imagine.


I am conflict avoidant and do very poorly in relationships because I grew up being severely abused if I said no, disagreed or said anything that would 'trigger' them to hit me. I at 29 am finally doing trauma therapy to unlearn that making someone upset won't automatically make them violent towards me. It's really hard to unlearn and good on your friend for making the effort to get better, as many don't.


I wish you the very best on your journey. <3


Me and my boyfriend had a rough two years because of trauma and mental illness and getting out of the army and shit. And I was so worried that it was going to be a bad relationship, but we stuck through it and both went to therapy and I'm just eternally grateful because now this is the best relationship I've ever been in. I'm comfortable and happy and so in love. I still am trying to figure out how you can tell if that person is a monster in disguise or someone who is traumatized and Ill...


I guess the key thing here is to remember that even if they are acting out of trauma- that is absolutely no excuse to treat others badly. Yes it is good to know and be able to help - but never ever let that turn into responsibility to keep them in your life.


Criminal Minds episode has a woman kill her husband then claim DV. The woman’s 2 children believed she was hopeless at everything because that’s what their father had taught the entire family.


Oh yes, and the saddest part was that she cleaned up after she killed him because "he would get mad for the mess" or something alike. At the time I thought that was overkill but the more I read the more plausible it seems. And it stuck with me ever since that episode first aired, so it definitely made an impact anyhow.


Oh, that’s an interesting line! I recently saw a similar line from an actual murder story. Look up Glyn Dix. There was a LOT more going on in the Glyn Dix case, but the similarity of that comment surprised me.


I always remember this. That episode was so good in that. And then I saw something like that happen with my two own eyes. It was mindboggling.


There was a real case like that in the UK a few years ago. A woman called Sally Challen snapped and killed her husband after years of emotional and financial abuse. In the end her sons supported her, and helped her to get a reduced prison sentence. It helped create a new law in the UK codifying the crime of ‘coercive control’. https://www.justiceforwomen.org.uk/sally-challen-appeal


Bet he must think some of it was deserved because of her one breakdown that "ruined everything". Hope MIL lives her best life.


My guess is a combo of he resents her for being so cold to him, saying she didn’t want kids, openly resenting having kids or spending money or time with them, and his “normal meter” being severely messed up by being raised in a household where abuse is normal.


Yeah there’s a section of society that still really has a lot of rage for women who don’t want to be and are not in a position to be Good Mothers. The hormones don’t “take over” and make it all rosy. Of course the kids aren’t to blame and that’s gotta fuck them up in its own way but everyone should be in therapy for several years, here.


she may also feel her children were the product of rape




This right here. If she was sold in to a marriage she didn't want, that she felt she was being held hostage in, she for sure did not consensually have children. OP just being angry about how "cold" MIL is to her children is just, sad really.


There's going to be a whole new group of adults who were unwanted children in 25 years. Good luck, America.


Smdh. Makes me mad. >MIL lives her best life You bet your ass she will, she's free.


And I hope she continues to be free. Someone here deserves everything, and that's her.


Her husband’s “everyone got what they deserved” line was 🔥🔥🔥. We stan a protective spouse.


When I tried to intervene in my parents abusive disputes I became the scape goat for both of them. They were both terrible people though, but a bad life can do that to you.


The kind of son that grows up in a loveless, toxic household with a mother that despises him. How is he supposed to know who the bad guy is?


This. OP's husband had a terrible childhood, being raised by abusers and someone that said she hated him....... and then people expect him to react like a normal person would? He was raised with that as "normal."


His normal meter is completely broken. And to realize that requires self awareness, introspection, & emotional hard work. He'll have to take years of long walks back through his life realizing what he thought was reality was a massive lie & that he was coerced into abusing another human being. The profound shame he'll have to realize & live for the rest of his life regardless of forgiving himself. The utter grotesque, gothic horror of his family. The utter violation of his soul by making an innocent child a part of it all.


The profound agony of looking at himself and his siblings, and realising that every single one of them is a product of marital rape...


This is literally the cycle of generational trauma perpetuating itself.


For real. I wouldn’t defend my mom either if she talked about how she wished she didn’t have to deal with me and didn’t even try to have a relationship with me? The parents are the ones who should teach their kid how to treat people with love and kindness and the mother (and father) showed none of that to the SO. She deadass said she hated him.


The kind of son who grew up with a mom who acted like she only had kids because her family forced her to do so. I feel horrible for the mom, but that shit'll fuck up your kids too.


She didn't act like it, it was her reality


Right. And what I'm saying is that she presumably acted accordingly.


Unfortunately someone that was raised in an environment where he saw it was okay to abuse his mother. He probably took part in it himself from a young age and it was probably encouraged. This is the worst


The kind that was never shown love? I mean, we don’t know his side of the story


Also possible the father would turn on him if he tried.


One brought up in that kind of environment, naturally.


Seriously. The cycle of abuse is a real fucking thing and it’s not easily broken.


I know right ? This was insanely chaotic post . While I can empathise with OOP because her dress was ruined and so was her wedding day there are a hell lot of things problematic with the whole situation . Isn't the MIL who paid for everything from wedding , wedding dress to the car they drive ?? Also , she knew MIL is being gaslighted even right in front of her and her husband . I cannot even imagine what would have gone on behind the doors . Did her children do nothing to stand up to their father and maternal grandparents . Are they so spineless??? No wonder she sees her children as another bunch of people mooching off her and indirectly abetting her abusers .


I feel I can find OOP empathetic on almost everything - of course she's upset about the wedding dress getting cut up and those feelings aren't necessarily going to dissipate just because she got more information, and it seems she realizes how wronged her MIL was and feels bad for her. Like... her *words* are all the good words. But then she describes seeing the cousin like even hearing about the MIL evokes a trauma response that she doesn't question even after everything she heard, and then seeing the pictures *she's mad that MIL got the wedding she didn't get*. Doesn't she see that that's how MIL felt about her? AND WITH A LOT MORE REASON, is more the issue? It's not even having the feelings that's the issue per se, it's the fact she doesn't question them, she presents them in the story as reasonable and legitimate, without even an empty caveat. Who knows, maybe OOP has her own unexplored trauma that's informing her emotional reactions in this situation. After all, she is married to her husband who as others have pointed out, grew up in that household and at some point at least saw this as his normal... No hint as to what he thinks now. Maybe OOP's reaction aren't just "why does she get a beautiful wedding when I was unable to enjoy mine" but maybe a bit of "why does she get to have her happily ever after when I'm still stuck here, low-key hating my life but not clearsighted about why". That fiancé (now husband) seems like an absolute MVP though.


Yeah OOP is all over the place here… how could someone learn all this and still care at all about any wedding or any wedding dress? This feels like one of those times that deeper perspective trumps whatever petty feelings you had before and your whole life and conceptualization of your relationship with your (husband’s) family changes forever. I wonder what culture these folks are from in which the wedding is such an “important” rite of passage.


>how could someone learn all this and still care at all about any wedding or any wedding dress? This. Like. I have some level of empathy for what happened to OOP's dress/wedding, but it's an infinitesimal amount after reading the whole post. Especially compared to the empathy I feel for MIL. We don't even fully know MIL's whole story, but the part we do is horrifying. That poor woman. It doesn't make the way she's behaved *okay*, but it makes it WAY more understandable. By the end of it, OOP comes off to me more as entitled than sympathetic.


Someone sliced up some of my clothes once and it was the absolute dealbreaker and in a sense I've never gotten over it, and the reason is it really seemed like the clothes were a proxy for me, for my body. It was really me, physically, the person wanted to destroy, and they wanted me to know that. I have no idea whether OOP had any awareness of that kind of dynamic, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were some underlying sense of violence aimed at her even if she's not conscious of it.


> father gave them mothers credit cards and told them to spend freely and they didn't even ask her if she was okay with it? If she was my MIL I would feel very, very, very awful, and I would definitely question my fiancé and our upcoming marriage if this is the way he treats his mother. He may have been p I don't think you can blame children for the environment the parents brought them up in, they didn't choose to be born and they had no idea they grew up in abusive home. Not until they were in their adulthood most likely. All they saw was probably an intense lack of love from father to mother, mother to father and mother to child. As an idea- maybe the lack of love she displayed towards them made them dislike her? And this is where they grew a dislike towards her? I couldn't imagine being told by my mother i wasnt wanted. Feel for the mother though, if she had anyone adult to help her out of it, maybe she could have had a relationship with those children. Instead they are fruit of the poison tree.


MIL was sold, drugged, probably raped and emotionally and probably physically abused and financially exploited and her kids didn’t even care enough to say something. Everyone loved her abusers and thinks she is a piece of shit. I don’t blame her for wanting a new life. She was essentially a slave and even her own children didn’t give a crap about her and participated in the abuse.


The father gave them mothers credit cards and told them to spend freely and they didn't even ask her if she was okay with it? If she was my MIL I would feel very, very, very awful, and I would definitely question my fiancé and our upcoming marriage if this is the way he treats his mother. He may have been part of the cycle of abuse because he was raised that way, but OOP just jumped in as long as she got free stuff. She's as much an abuser as the family she married into.


I was actually shocked reading that they got 60k for the wedding. Like wtf. I mean, sure sucks about the dress, but like the whole situation is just fucked up. And still bitching that they didn’t get a house as promised. Holy shit. It makes me just question everyones morals in this story. It also explains why she just couldn’t be arsed about feeling sorry about the dress. If you are in such a mental state you just literally don’t care.


>MIL was sold, drugged, probably raped and emotionally and probably physically abused and financially exploi.... OOP's husband: SHUT UP!


*Some of the things can't be given back, his education, vacations. I don't have anything tangible to give her.* and *MIL’s husband pointed out that we pulled up in a car she bought and said we are both pieces of shit for still driving it.* i think there's more gifts out there than oop admits lol


I feel bad for OOP about her dress and all, but I mean, $60k’s a pretty nice wedding and all of that other shit. Not OOP’s fault that that stuff happened and everyone in the MIL’s life benefited from her forms of success, but her having a psychotic break and the dress being the victim is… kind of sadder for MIL than OOP. And yeah, if MIL is gifting houses and cars to families, I’m guessing there have been other perks beyond tuition and nice watches.


>I feel bad for OOP about her dress and all, Yeah, if she had stopped talking there, she would still have my sympathy. But doubling down on how she is the real victim here, while doing absolutely nothing to acknowledge, let alone alleviate the pain and suffering of her MIL, squarely paints her as an asshole.


They just don't have anything tangible to give back to MIL. Now, about that car you drove up here in....


Yep. Her dress (that MIL paid for) was valued more than MIL's whole lifetime of abuse she endured from childhood to now. OOP is the asshole between the two of them. She sounds like a spoiled brat. Wearing a cheaper dress ruined the whole wedding for her? It wasn't about marrying the love of her life with all her friends and family around? Nope, it was all about her dress...


Everyone in her life used her till this day and it’s sad it took her until her 50s to realize it, OP was using her too


I think MIL was younger than 50... OP said she (OP) married her husband pretty much right out of college, and the post kind of implies that FIL preferred women on the younger side. MIL was pulled out of school to continue modeling. I wouldn't be surprised if MIL was married to FIL as soon as she met the age of consent.


Fiancé threw her a 50th birthday party, so she was younger than 50 at the time of her psychotic break.


Ah, I forgot about the birthday party, thanks for the reminder.


I don’t know if she was at the age of consent. She was drugged and coerced during the wedding. They were financially abusing her. I’d guess she was pregnant not working around the time of her normal prom and then starved back into working weight to model some more until second kid was born.


Yeah, the age of consent tissue for, you know, consensual relations. Unfortunately, underage children can be married with their parents' consent. As minors, they cannot consent, but their parents can on their behalf. I would nit be surprised if that was the case here. Her consent was not necessary, if she was underage. They may have done it that early on purpose to ensure they kept control, marrying her off before she gained the legal right to leave them, tying her down legally to someone to keep control of her before they would have lost legal control at 18.


This is the impression I got too. I’m betting she was married off to one of her parents’ friends, around their age, when she was 16 or 17. And I bet OP deliberately didn’t include any ages because it would be telling that they must have always known it was abuse. I’d guess MIL had OP’s husband and SIL right around 18-20 while FIL was in his 40s.


> I wouldn't be surprised if MIL was married to FIL as soon as she met the age of consent. There are still places in the USA that allow child marriages with parent consent that have no age requirements at all. It's very rare for little kids to get married in the states but it can happen. If they are outside the states it might not even be a rare thing depending on the country. Her getting married says nothing about her age.


Like 30 states. It’s like 10,000 marriages a year. Mostly evangelicals.


How cheap was the *cheap* dress she was *forced* to wear instead? More than my wedding, give or take a few bucks?


I think that may have been the point I started to lose empathy for OOP. I’m guessing the replacement wasn’t *that* cheap, and if that “ruined” the whole wedding…eh, there may be some misplaced priorities. There was another story awhile back where a MIL did something similar and - like this - it turned out to be due to a mental breakdown. That OOP was understandably pissed, but calmed down once they realized what had happened and why. I saw no such empathy here, even after a *suicide attempt*.


Yeah, the whole post is "my MIL suffered a lifetime of horrific abuse and was treated like a slave by her entire family, but my wedding dress was more important." Like, hon, I'm sorry about the dress, but there's this thing called *perspective*.


That husband is a keeper!


She finally has someone who cares about her


Hopefully he truly is and not some next abuser. Vulnerable people are easy targets for those.


Oh I remember this one! I feel so bad for MIL. I get where OOP is coming from with the dress and I understand that she and her husband did not understand what was going on, but geez. The victim blaming in the last paragraph is just ridiculous. Especially since I doubt she and her husband have actually cleared up their act since then from how she talks.


I had no sympathy for OP. Mil spent 60 k on her wedding and probably bought the wedding dress too. OP stood back and watched the emotional/verbal abuse. It also sounds like she was upset that the MIL was free before she could be used to buy them a house.


>About the cost of the wedding (dress included) MIL paid for: She paid about $60,000 I had to go back and check but MIL did pay for the dress.


I don’t feel that bad for OOP, to be clear. I feel bad about the dress, but don’t think her holding her rage for that long was understandable or healthy. *However*, I also know that it can be hard to see the signs of abuse in family relationships when you are part of that family. Warning signs of abusive romantic relationships can be subtle at first; for in-laws, much less born/adopted family members like OOP’s husband, this can be the same when you only see them so many times before becoming “integrated” with the family. Does that excuse OOP’s actions and lack of empathy? No. Does it explain them? I wouldn’t use that word, because imo “explain” is often synonymous with “excuse.” But we are objective readers, we are outsiders looking in, and it’s easy for us to see how it’s so wrong. When you’re not objective and the behavior is normalized, it can be harder to come to that same conclusion. That being said, at this point I don’t think there’s much help for OOP. Unless she is actually willing to change her thinking patterns and views of the MIL, she will be stuck in this mindset. So yeah. Poor dress, but like I said originally, I don’t think OOP or her husband are going to get better anytime soon.


The MILs new husband seems like a good guy. I hope they find happiness.


And he is pretty astute at the dynamics. ‘Looks like everyone got what they deserve.’ MIL has her life back, while her son is with a selfish and self centred wife. Perfect.


*Psst - spoilers didn't work, friendo*


thanks!! I had issues posting it but will fix it!!


>One of the worst things I remember was her birthday party. She was not allowed to eat the cake and was given a spoon with frosting to lick and she got frustrated because they laughed at her and threw the spoon at FIL. She was then berated for being violent. ***I wanted to intervene but my husband didn't think it was our business*** This right here is where I stopped seeing OOP's side. They WITNESSED just how much abuse MIL was going through, and they just... fucking watched. And even after hearing EVERYTHING she went through, they still feel like she was wrong. Yes, MIL shouldn't have cut up the dress, but I take that as MIL having a breakdown, considering she was sent to a mental hospital immediately afterwards. >My husband pretty much told her to shut up, because he knew it was upsetting me. MIL was telling them EVERYTHING she went through. Every abuse and gaslighting that her own family caused her, and MIL's own son just brushed it aside because it was upsetting OOP? Dude, have some fucking empathy for your own mother! >On one hand I understand that MIL did not agree to have him and views him as something she was forced to do, so her parents could control her money, but it makes me mad that she acts like he was a partner in this crime. No, OOP. MIL doesn't blame your husband, but unfortunately, and this is a fucked up statement, OOP's husband is a walking reminder of the abuse that her family caused her. She doesn't blame him, but his presence hurts her. Like I said, it's fucked up, but it's the unfortunate truth. Besides, her own son witnessed some of the abuse and basically said "not my problem". That really gotta hurt MIL even more, as her own son wasn't willing to defend her. I ranted a little too long here. Long story short, MIL is finally living instead of just "existing" and OOP and her husband have finally learned how monstrous MIL's family is and will stay away (hopefully). All and all, it's a shitty ending for everyone, maybe except MIL.


I know it isn’t the “suffering olympics,” but how in the world can OOP still be upset at the MIL about what happened? She suffered a mental breakdown after decades of abuse, and OOP is just like “I get the child trafficking, drugging, probably rape, but what about *my* special day??? Also I’m gonna keep this car.”


I couldn't get over the part about being upset for not being bought a house as a wedding gift. 60k for a wedding, a car, other gifts she's likely not telling us about, and she's upset she can't get a free house???


>I couldn't get over the part about being upset for not being bought a house as a wedding gift. When I get married, imma be happy with a $50 gas card and a hug. Living is expensive, and hugs are dope. I've never understood the people who get upset at stuff like that, or act entitled to it. I'd just be like "welp; i've got my apartment, and houses are expensive, makes sense. I can buy my own eventually"


I can excuse selling a child and having them sedated on their wedding day to someone who will abuse them for 20 years, but I draw the line at destroying a wedding dress during a mental breakdown that culminates in a suicide attempt. Unforgivable. I hope everyone involved takes some time to reflect on how they could grow from this situation.


I reposted it cause of an AITA that gave me the same kind of vibes with the son saying shit like "my Mom's half siblings were raised to hate her but my Mom should know better than defend herself" (paraphrasing) It makes me so upset.. Just because there are no bruises, that you see at least, doesn't mean the person has not been put through hell. I was by my legal mother.. she is, to this day, and I know A LOT of people, the worst person I know and the reason I would not touch the catholic church with a 1 km pole. She created so many issues in my soul that even now after not seeing her in person for more than a decade (and only seeing her 3 times in the last 20 years) I still shake when she does stuff.. She is the reason I have no social media to my name, no work accounts, etc. People downplay what happens to someone when you are heavily mistreated in ways that are not physical.


>No, OOP. MIL doesn't blame your husband, but unfortunately, and this is a fucked up statement, OOP's husband is a walking reminder of the abuse that her family caused her. She doesn't blame him, but his presence hurts her. Like I said, it's fucked up, but it's the unfortunate truth. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT BOTHERED ME. OOP talks about the exact same thing for herSELF but can't recognize and respect this feeling in her MIL. To recap: OOP is furious at MIL about the dress. Later, after finding out what happened to MIL and why GFIL is in jail (seriously? Just jail? Ugh. He *sold a child*. Jesus fuck.) she's *still mad* even though she feels like it's not really MIL who set up this situation. She knows that MIL's entire life was beyond her control and is still mad, but somewhat understanding. Seeing a wedding dress in context with her MIL makes her furious. OOP's husband is *the same for MIL*. She knows it's not strictly his fault, but she was forced to have him, and he's an adult but still never helped her out of these situations. She even got publicly humiliated at her birthday and he insisted on *not* helping her. OOP didn't even buy the dress! MIL did! The short notice of the destruction is unfortunate, but JFC, given what she's been through, maybe *let it fucking go*. I would have gone out of my way to be kind to someone after learning they had such a hard life, but maybe that's just my dumb ass, abused, manipulated, unpaid and starved ex-child-model ass. MIL have been through the same things, but hers were a LOT worse than mine. Shit, my biggest problem after I went NC was "I wasn't allowed to eat chickpeas, but they're ***delicious?!*** Why did no one tell me that they're delicious!" I mean, plus the sexual assault therapy, but still. Nothing like OOP's poor MIL. I hope her new marriage is a blessing that brings her joy for the rest of her long life. That's my hope.


I am so sorry you went through a similar situation, and am so glad you got out, got therapy, and are living a chickpea full life. (Have you tried hummus yet? It's made from chickpeas and is amazing.)


MIL appears to have finally found a partner who has her back and I hope she thrives away from everyone who hurt her. What really fucked me up was the fact that OOP and her husband rolled up in a car that MIL paid for and still have the audacity to say it’s not fair to be accused of being complicit in her abuse. So her money is good enough for you, but demanding that she be treated like a human being “isn’t your business”? Man fuck off.


I know the part where they told her to shut up, when she agrees to meet and was there *because they asked her* and was doing exactly what they asked when she was told to shut up, after recounting something very traumatic… I just have no words. OOP is an entitled brat as far as I’m concerned. Such little empathy it’s honestly appalling.


Oh my god, I don’t know. The OP still seems to be devoid of empathy. I get that her wedding dress was ruined, but MIL paid for her whole wedding and by the sounds of it paid for everything else as well. A person has pretty much been forced into a servitude her whole adult life, has a mental breakdown and snaps and you keep going on about wedding dress? Surely when she was gifted $60k wedding she could have bought one thing for herself. And MIL was right, OP and her husband are complicit and I don’t blame her for wanting to be NC. Edit: Also MIL tried to commit suicide. Who the hell thinks about the dress after that?!! I know I wouldn’t even think about the dress, my first thought would be “Oh my god, are you okay?”


I do know! The OOP is shockingly lacking in empathy, this woman was literally forced to work, forced to marry her husband, and most likely forced to bear the children she can hardly even look at. She called it imprisonment. She fucking snapped and then tried to kill herself, but all OOP can think about is "I had to wear a cheap dress on my wedding day" – all I can hope is that she's just super young, and will grow up to loath her younger self. She's just like all the rest of the people in this woman's life – a leech from start to finish. She only even wanted to talk to her because she was worried about her kid. I'm glad the MIL seems to have someone in her life who actually cares about her now.


I know right, she didn’t even care about the fact that MIL had a mental breakdown, she was worried about her own kid only. And her husband telling MiL to shut up….ooooh just awful people.


Also, why did OOP have to contact MIL and retraumatize her to get more info on GFIL? Like, how were court records and a prison sentence insufficient? Equally, if you sit there and watch someone verbally abuse his wife for years you have what you need to answer the question of whether he’s safe for your kids: NO. OOP’s stated reason for reaching out and interfering in MIL’s new life doesn’t pass the sniff test.


the timeline of this is odd - she cut up the dress right before the wedding, tried to kill herself right away and .... they still got married???? If my boyfriend's mom tried to kill herself the last thing I would be worried about would be the party I was throwing in a couple days, let alone the outfit I was wearing. Of course, I am saying that with the hindsight of two divorces under my belt but still. that poor MIL>


A ruined wedding dress versus a ruined life and OOP still doesn’t get it


I think the key point for me is that during that final conversation, OP’s husband tells his mom to shut up (?!) just because it’s a stressful conversation and it’s upsetting OP. Like that is incredibly out of line especially since it’s a serious discussion about such a terrible situation. I can’t help but feel like OP’s husband has been influenced by his dad to be cruel or dismissive to his mother, too, and OP is blinded by the dress situation to not just have empathy but also see the warning sign in her husband witnessing this abuse and not getting involved all these years.


Honestly, oop is one of the people I understand the least. Like, I feel like I know why husband and sister in law don't give a damn about their mom. But oop is... Bizarre.


poor mil


To be very honest to internet strangers, MIL’s story hit me really hard. I’m currently doing a lot of really tough therapy to deal with some childhood trauma. A lot of what MIL went through (even described second hand!) resonated with me. I was not expecting to cry at what I thought would be a fun BORU post. I get that OOP can’t possibly understand. I feel try to be really generous with people that can’t understand what I’ve been through. But I am really feeling way more sympathy for MIL than OOP


I hate to say this but I agree with her MIL. I mean she was forced to marry her ex and her kids never stood up for her even seeing how their father spoke to her. It's sad. I can see why she doesn't want a relationship with her kids. I'm happy that she's found someone that loves her.


I mean her kids were the product of human trafficking and slavery more or less. Hard to be maternal with that as the premise.


If it was a forced marriage, the kids are a product of rape.


And her kids were tools to further abuse her.


I've got family members who grew up in dysfunctional and toxic homes and who think that their parents' behaviours were normal. They don't see how a parent's toxicity and emotional abuse has affected them and coloured their view of the world and how they now abuse their own significant others or let themselves be doormats.


It's much more complicated than that, abusive households are so warped and chaotic that everyone is literally doing what they think is best to survive. Kids of abusive households do what they need to do to survive. My in-laws have 5+ kids. Only two of their kids talk to them. Only two. One daughter tried to stage an intervention for their mom to get her out, "someone" called CPS in on *her* for retaliation.


Right there with you. I basically went, well no shit, MIL is messed up. I get that the kids would feel one way, it's really awful, but once they were adults they just used her? From what the mom said she went through, and then even as an adult, she was just used for her money? I can see exactly where she's coming from. What a horrifying situation. Edit added a line


I was ready for a JNMIL post tbh. Then it kept going and seems more like a JNeveryone


JNEveryone except for the poor woman sold into sexual slavery.


And her new husband. He seemed alright.


Yeah, he can stay too.


Yeah and she was never willing to pay for anything they just forced her to buy things + being abused for years everyone ignored her and mocked her for it


I wonder if MIL ever went a day in her life feeling as if her body belonged only to her. Whether she was working or getting married or birthing children, her flesh and bones were for the consumption of others.


I mean if they were told or taught that treating their mother that way was not a big deal, they probably never gave it a second thought. Though I was hoping OOP’s husband would have said something when they found out what was going on. At least they are cutting off the FIL and GMIL.


>At least they are cutting off the FIL and GMIL. But only now that they have discovered something that directly affects *them.* Before that they both saw MIL being openly abused by FIL and not only did nothing but also decided to keep an ongoing relationship with him when MIL finally snapped. They didn't give a shit until it looked like the dirt could land on their doorstep.


I couldn't believe that after she listed the ways FIL abused MIL, OP says in the next paragraph they're still "very close" with FIL?! Her son "adores" him? What the fuck!? OP is *still* ignoring what MIL went through.


And then she says afterwards that she talked to MIL and decided that neither FIL nor MIL were safe people to be around. I felt like in the end, she hoped MIL was happy. But she was still salty about the dress. I get it. That doesn’t mean that I agree with it; they all sound like collectively horrible people.


I think she was saying MIL’s mom was not a safe person, not MIL. MIL doesn’t seem to want anything to do with them regardless


Yes! OOP acts like she wanted to defend MIL at times but didn't do anything because she was told not to... I'm assuming by her now husband? How can you even marry into a family like that?!?! I would have dumped him! OP is not a nice person if she was able to go through with it. >She felt that we watched and “aided” in her abuse, which I don’t think is fair because there were a lot of red flags, but a lot of stuff we didn’t know about. 100% on MIL's side. OOP's husband is not a nice person.


OOP isn’t that nice of a person either. She was taken advantage of by her parents. She was drugged and sold into a marriage she didn’t want. She was forced to have kids she didn’t want who were complicit in her abuse. Her money was used to buy luxuries for everyone but her. She had a nervous breakdown and tried to commit suicide. And then OOP is just going on about “bUt mY DReSs!!1!” I am so glad MIL finally got her wedding. But OOP’s attitude isn’t much better than anyone else’s. I hope MIL and her new husband turn away and never look back.


Iam so glad MIL finally found someone who cares about her too and cut off OP and the whole entire family, OP only cares now because she’s not benefiting anymore


Pretty sure they only agreed to meet because of the chance to cut her abusers off from more people. The only good thing about OOP is that she believed MIL.


Eventually... it really threw me though when she said that she didn't know if the other in-laws were abusive, but then went on to list loads of abuse that she actually witnessed. I thought at first the cake incident was MIL's childhood memory, not that OOP actually witnessed a family publicly controlling what a woman in her 40s eats. And even at the end, OOP still needed to meet up with MIL to 'confirm' it. No wonder MIL wants no contact - even if she forgave them, it would be hard for her to heal surrounded by people whose normal meters are so broken.


Who also seems to have their hands out to try and get more money from mil, cause that wasn’t their fault and that’s what mil was there for lol what a messed up situation. Screw the dress l would have been devastated if l learned that a person went through this and if even only in a small way contributed (mil paying for wedding and car etc)


I can somewhat understand. I don’t like confrontations and usually have the mentality of “it’s their problems not mine, don’t be rude”. She probably thought it’s okay to just let it go as long as her husband didn’t treat her that way (I mean it looks like everyone else acted like it was nothing except OOP who was an outsider). But tbh I would have at least discuss it with the husband about how abnormal it was and told him that was not right. I kinda doubt the husband came out unscathed though. He probably has some pretty weird views on mothers/women with how his home environment was.


I came here to say something similar. OOP sounds like they're in denial when they should really be worrying about her husband's potential to treat her like that, particularly if they have a child that's a girl.


I thought once OOP kept uncovering how terribly MIL had been treated her whole life and how abused she had been, OOP would have a little compassion about the dress but no. She didn't seem to have any at all for what had happened to this woman, despite bringing up examples of how she had seen the abuse first hand!


If you click the link to the extra comments, it sounds like she started to accept it as the new information really settled in. There's conceptually knowing something, and really *knowing* it, understanding at a deeper level. I can well believe that a level of disbelief would have initially shielded her brain - what MIL went through is horrific.


>OOP would have a little compassion about the dress but no. right? I kept waiting for OP to be like, "okay I get it now. at least I got to marry a man of my own choice and celebrate with people who love me. the dress didn't really matter in the long run." but she still doesn't get it. :(


And in her comments she said her MIL offered to buy her the dress again and pay for makeup after the incident!! She clearly didnt do it to spite OP she was having a mental breakdown and all OP can think about is her dress. Smh


OOP is like “well I’m still pissed about the dress so I can’t talk about it any more for the sake of *my* mental health”. OOP GET SOME GODDAMN THERAPY AND A VOW RENEWAL/PHOTOSHOOT IF YOUR MENTAL HEALTH IS THST FRAGILE OVER A DRESS.


I kept thinking that. And it sounded like MIL paid for the dress and the whole wedding??? Honestly I 100% get the fury she'd felt at paying for a dress for someone else and being told she wasn't good enough to have her own. Could the MIL be more apologetic? Yes, but it sounds like she's been through everything and more. I'm sure she feels like she's apologized enough for one lifetime, and spent most of her time in a disassociated daze, apathetic to the world around her.


I’m not defending OP or her husband but it’s really not a child’s job to save their parents. When OPs husband was growing up his mother was apathetic and cold and didn’t care about him. Also how was a child supposed to know what a normal marriage looks like? MILs life sucks and she deserves compassion but that also doesn’t absolve her of doing something hella shitty and then never showing remorse.


Yeah, I can kinda see where the argument comes from but putting the burden of savior on the neglected kids is. Super fucked up, actually.


This. It isn’t on the kid to rectify the abuse that a parent went through. MIL perpetuated the cycle of abuse on. My heart breaks for her and her life. It also breaks for OOP as well. She will never look back on her wedding with joy. At this point all they can do is pick up the pieces and try to go on.


I'm sorry but OOP and her husband did watch the abuse and did nothing. She brings up one instance herself (the birthday cake spoon thing). And she totally lacks empathy towards her MIL.


I'm kinda disgusting with Op. Like she cried because "it wasn't fair" that MIL looked so beautiful on her wedding cause she was so pretty and thin...but she just talked about how Mil was barely ever allowed to eat and how her beauty put her through so much. She also made it seem like MIL was super aggressive and never bothered helping them with anything only to drop the bomb that she not only gave then 60 K but also paid for the dress, was going to buy them a house, paid for multiple of their things (such as a car and putting her son through college, and all that for her daughter to) It's also heavily implied that she was raped and thus her kids are products of that. And like op seems so *mad* that her MIL is *happy* all because she didn't get to wear her dress at her 60k + wedding.


It reminds me of that story about the girl that was mad at her boyfriend because he decided not to go on a cross-country trip with her that they had been planning for a while at the last minute, and he was mad at her because she went anyway without him. But later on you find out that he got diagnosed with a super aggressive form of cancer like the week before the trip or some thing. It was insane.


Absolutely. Like I get that she’s upset about her dress, that was a shitty thing for MIL to do, but OP is describing an unfathomable level of abuse that MIL went through for literal decades. It sucks that OP was collateral damage when MIL finally snapped, but her loss is a fucking drop in the bucket compared to what MIL has had to deal with. OP should be more empathetic, and the fact that she isn’t is honestly kind of disturbing.


>the fact that she isn’t is honestly kind of disturbing I think this means she married into the right family for her. Her poor kid.


MIL has probably gone most of her life feeling like her body existed to be consumed by other people—her enforced work, her diets, her marriage, her pregnancies. I feel so sick just imagining that kind of total lack of meaningful autonomy.




OP disgusts me. I really felt sick reading what she wrote. How could one person lack so much empathy for another?


Right? Am I the only one whose heart hurts for MIL? Because OOP absolutely could have, as not just a woman and DIL, but as a *human fucking being*, speak up and say something during one of the instances she personally witnessed MIL being emotionally abused by her own family.


I just want to give a hug to this poor woman and help make sure she doesn't go through any of this again


One thing that struck me was "MIL ruined my wedding dress and, oh yeah, attempted suicide the next day but guys, MY WEDDING DRESS!!" Sorry about OOP's dress, but she seems kind of horrible.


Right, like if MIL attempted suicide, obviously there's more important things than a fucking dress


Yeah at that point we are clearly in mental breakdown territory and it’s not just Somebody Being Mean.


Yeah, and also no self-awareness about profiting from MIL's suffering - like 60k for the wedding, or the car. Still mad about the dress - that MIL paid for - not appreciative of everything she got.


The lack of self-awareness on OOP is honestly infuriating. She spends 1/2 the time complaining that her MIL got a great wedding even though she ruined hers, while completely ignoring the fact that she likely wouldn’t even have had 1/2 the wedding she did if MIL wasn’t forced to pay for it. Also the son is a complete POS as well. I mean your mother is pouring her heart out and explaining to you how she’s been traumatized her whole life and the best you can do is tell her to shut up because hearing about the reality she lived is upsetting your wife? All the family surrounding MIL except the cousin sounds completely insufferable and so selfish. Hopefully, she’s able to find love and fulfillment with her new husband and the few family members she trusts.


Part of me wonders if it's rage bait just based on all the cruel things she clearly knew about. Or perhaps deep denial so she doesn't feel guilty about her active part in it.


Yes, the new husband sounds like a winner, I'm really glad for her!


Seriously. She paid 60 fucking k towards your wedding while she was being emotionally and verbally abused by the entire family while you stood by and did absolutely nothing,and then surprise surprise she has a fucking mental breakdown after years of abuse and all you can say at the end of the day after hearing about more abuse is just being angry cause 'your wedding day was ruined'.. I'm sorry a human being is worth more than a fancy white dress. And then your husband--her own son-- tells her to shut up after YOU GUYS contacted her and wanted her to retell stories and potentially relive YEARS of abuse, because the poor wifey is upset at what she hears ?? Sounds like the husband got a lot of traits from his dad. If I was that mom I would also cut the son off. And NOBODY owes you a damn house. Did they pay for anything themselves??? Damn, obviously what the mom did by cutting up a dress was wrong, but can't she get a little understanding ?!


I still can’t get over how she sat there and watched her MIL being given the birthday spoon and did nothing….


It’s such a grim story. I kept wondering how old MIL was when she was drugged and married off. She was essentially kept as a slave by her family and husband. No wonder she cried when her husband threw her a surprise party! Finally there was something just for her, and someone who valued her. I hope they have a long and happy marriage.


Same, her husband told her not to do anything but she's a grown ass woman and should have done something.


>My husband pretty much told her to shut up, because he knew it was upsetting me. Any goodwill I had for OOP and her husband flew out the door at that point. Wtf??? Your mom is explaining the hell she went through and you're telling her to "shut up" because your wife might be upset? Fuck that guy! And fuck OOP too.


Yup. Garbage husband marries garbage wife and drives around in a car paid for by his *sex trafficked mother.*


Right? As a victim / survivor of abuse, I feel *so* much sympathy for MIL. She’s been forced into playing the role of the “perfect” child for her entire life — her parents and her husband treat her like a porcelain doll, like she’s a toy for them to play with. Even worse, MIL is the one funding everyone’s lifestyles. It seems like her work is the only thing that she has control over, and she’s clearly damn good at what she does if she can support her entire family. Meanwhile, OP and her husband watched her get mistreated by her family for YEARS while continuing to leech off her — hell, she basically funded their lifestyle too. MIL cutting apart OP’s wedding dress wasn’t malicious — she was having a fucking mental breakdown. She’s spending $60K on a wedding for two people who watched her abuse. Two people who are part of the reason she never got to have freedom of her own (I say they’re part of the reason because they let it continue). Anyone would be resentful in that position. God, I hope MIL is okay.


God, I get OP being extremely upset about the dress in the moment, but she is truly lacking in empathy, and doesn't seem to feel bad that she basically took advantage of a slave for years.


And finds it awkward when... MIL gets comfort from her husband by putting her head down on (I assume) his shoulder? (I'm assuming the shoulder because I feel OOP would have worded it differently if it was in his lap) I still don't see what's awkward about a woman receiving tenderness from her husband. Or why the MIL was paying for the wedding dress and not OOP. And I absolutely agree with the husband about the car. I'd have sold that car and bought another one then offered to pay MIL back after such a revelation about her past.


*AND* is upset that MIL accused her husband and her of being apart of her torture after her husband basically tells MIL to shut up because she was "upsetting" Op with her own life story. Like wtf.


They seem to understand that she was abused but not? Like understand she went through 50 yrs of abuse and still hurt that a woman who’s abused for decades is probably a bit mentally fucked not to mention it sounds likely OOPs husband was a product of rape. Also is it just me or kind of.. iffy calling someones abuse something “Like out of a horror movie”


It sounds like OOP has been viewing MIL through the lens of "cold towards her children and destroyer of dresses." Really wrapping her head around MIL as an abuse victim is requiring a shift in perspective that is understandably hard to make and doubly uncomfortable because it will require OOP to recognize her own culpability as someone who didn't help.


Yup. Like they can't fathom that abuse can severely impact how you treat others. Especially children of your own rape. Like Op keeps pointing out how Mil was a "bad" mom and how she can't understand how she could treat her children that way....but like literally they were (very likely) the product of rape and were most likely one of the main reasons she couldn't leave (leaving a husband and fleeing is one thing but leaving children, Especially with an abusive man, is another) Also op is so mad that her MIL is happy. That's messed up.


Also, depending on the type of abuse, it's possible that MIL learned to create a visible distance between herself and the kids so that FIL couldn't hurt them to hurt her.


"We become the parents we wish we had" To her that means giving her kids space and leaving them alone to live their lives.


Yeah, that strikes me, too. On the other hand, it's *so* off, I have to wonder what kind of abuse *she's* suffered. It's pretty common for people to end up with people who're similar to one or another parent ~ Her husband's mother was terribly abused, I'd be completely unsurprised to find out OP, who he picked to be his wife, was also abused.. It's a dreadful story all around, for sure..


Also, I don’t know anyone who spent 60k on a wedding. No gratitude for getting that paid for, but lots of whining about a stupid dress she didn’t pay for herself.


This has really strong Britney Spears vibes


I was shocked with how far I had to scroll down to see this comment. I immediately got that impression.


MIL is making the right choice going no contact with the family that either abused her or refused to protect her from the abuse. I can understand that OOP is still upset. It sounds like she didn't really have a relationship with her MIL, so when her dress was destroyed it became THE defining moment of their history together. I hope that with time, OOP and her husband are able to really understand what MIL lived through and develop some actual empathy. Obviously, that would involve a really uncomfortable awareness of how their own inaction further served to enable her abusers / normalize her abuse. And that this enabling happened while they materially benefited from MILs continued exploitation. So who knows if that will actually ever happen.


Yikes. The “that looks like abuse, but it’s none of my business, so I won’t do anything, yet I’ll still take her (the abused’s) money’ is pretty hard to get past. TG MIL found what seems to be a bonafide protector. Edit autocorrect


If OOP thinks via inaction in the face of abuse they didn't make it worse, they did. They helped normalise it and OOP should really either not accept 60k dresses from people she is not "close with" or at least include them in the wedding somehow if she does.


Exactly. Neutrality is complacency. I’ve lost friends over calling them out on their neutrality, because in their eyes, “they never did anything wrong.” But watching someone get mistreated and abused is, in my opinion, just as bad as the abuse itself. By watching, they’re allowing the abuse to continue. They, like the abuser, see nothing wrong with the abuser’s actions.


OOP and all the rest of that family are massive AHs. They sat around and either watched or participated in MILs abuse. That poor woman was treated horribly and still expected to pay for everything. Education, cars, weddings, vacations, houses... But she never got any of it. At her own birthday she wasn't allowed to have any cake but was allowed to have some icing on a spoon. And then everyone laughed at her. She wasn't allowed to go to prom, college, have friends. All because she was expected to be everyone's piggy bank?! She didn't even get a wedding or to find her own husband for that matter. She was sold to FIL. And OOP continues shaming and blaming this poor woman. Boo-boo my dress (that MIL paid for). I understand being upset but seriously, let it go! The woman had a psychotic break. She wound up in the hospital for a month, and then the truth of all the horrors she had faced started to emerge. But all OOP cares about is a dress?! Then she tries to shame MIL again because she doesn't want anything to do with her kids anymore. Considering the way they all treated her, it's no wonder the poor woman wants nothing to do with them. Who wants to be buddy buddy with their tormentors? Then, OOP ends buy showing just how self-centered she really is. Because once again it's all about her. And her mental health. Never concerned with anyone but herself, that one. I am so glad that MIL finally got away from them. I really hope she has a happy ever after with her new husband. She deserves it.


OOP saw the abuse. Ignored it as long as her shit got paid for and then still is upset about the dress. What a horrible horrible person.


And this is her version where’s she’s trying to be the victim. I shudder to think about how bad it actually was.


Me googling which one of Britney Spears in-laws got married in a cheap dress . . . .


I was thinking the same damn thing, but who knows how many poor women are in pretty much the same situation?


I can see both sides here. MIL was clearly horrifically abused, but I also see OP’s point that she blames her children as if they were co-conspirators. They weren’t, they were children raised in a bad household. That kind of trauma takes years to unpack. They probably didn’t realise how bad it was because they were so used to it. I’m not trying to excuse it, I just understand the psychology behind it. And the MIL did ruin OP’s wedding by lashing out at someone completely unrelated to her trauma. Instead of fighting back against her parents or husband, it was a young woman on the eve of her wedding that she tried to hurt. I probably wouldn’t be able to be totally magnanimous after that either. However, OOP and her husband should absolutely have returned things they’d been given by her after learning everything. They can’t plead ignorance, and it’s not enough to just cut additional people out of your lives. Cars, expensive clothes, any of the forced ‘gifts’ should be returned or donated with MIL’s permission. I wouldn’t want to be in possession of something I knew was forcibly given under abusive conditions. You can be mad that your wedding was ruined, but you can’t keep the other things. Knowing the full facts, anything you keep is an acceptance of the abuse. ‘As long as it benefits me, I’ll allow it’ - that’s unacceptable behaviour. No contact for all is clearly the best thing for everyone in this sad story. Hopefully, MIL finds some kind of peace, OOP and her husband raise their children differently and reflect on why they didn’t speak up at what they originally saw (with the hopes that they will confront potential abuse earlier in the future), and the original abusers can’t exert their terrible control over anyone again. What a horrible mess.


I really, really hope that MIL is living a happy life somewhere. A life full of joy and free from abuse and neglect.


What did I just read? That poor woman. They all suck. I’m sorry a dress was cut up and that was upsetting for OP, but that whole family is horrific.


I’m not skeptical of the new husband at all, but OOP on the other hand… Poor MIL. That’s what a mental break looks like.


Went through her comments and OOP is really a PoS > I guess I'm just struggling. Everyone says her fiance is so in love with her, goes to her therapy appointments, he threw her this crazy expensive surprise 50th birthday party, kind of the wedding she always wanted and she broke down sobbing. They are eloping to France. I just feel like she is getting rewarded by the universe. I am going to tell family absolutely no more updates


It's staggering how much OOP is playing the victim in a story where she got a lot of financial gain from a sex trafficked woman who was terribly abused and probably raped pretty often.