Is she going too far?
By - Nikkuru1994
Shit, I didn't know asmon's chat are hired under contract by him. You know what he should do? Delete the chat npc in his game.
It almost like random anonymous viewers whom only mods can ban are not the same as Full-Time Paid Contracted workers who are under many contract obligations, rules and can be disciplinary and legally controlled. Hmmm....
DELETE THE CHAT NPC
What a joke. Sure am glad we won't have to see this idiot again.
Imagine thinking the two are even the same thing. Asmon's chat, on a slow night, has more people than people who work at Activision Blizzard, that doesn't even include the people who aren't in his chat but still watching.. He literally has bots spamming shit in his chat. He has what 5? 10? some small handful of mods who help him moderate his chat and even they can't keep up.
Can't imagine a scenario where he would be expected to pause his stream for several hours to ban people from the last 5 minutes that need to be banned. They can literally just come back within 5 seconds and and do the same thing again.
His entire audience doesn't take part in chat. Most people who watch streams do not give a fuck about chat. Logic and math clearly not being used in her post.
Want to know what happens if i'm sexiest, racist or just a cunt in asmon's chat and he can do anything about it? I just get banned.
Next time this idiot brings it up again in 2 years, i sure hope he doesn't even bother apologising again, which i'm sure he's done half a dozen times.
The two situations are completely different. This person is literally just using the situation to take shots at asmon and paint him as a bad person. What a horrible person.
I agree that if something is already been discussed at length is it official "water under the bridge". Bringing it up afterwards is a bitch-ass move.
No better, remove all his hair!!!
Damn bro lol
but they had none to begin with!
Ban the abusive shithead obviously. It isn't hard, there is a function for that on Twitch.
He even has a segment where he deals with appeals for said bans.
Hmmmm I see your point but if we are pointing the finger at Blizz for enabling or not doing anything about sexual harassment etc, I think (stress "think") there are actions streamers can take such as disabling chat, mods reviewing chat and taking action etc?
I could be way off but just because Asmon is a great streamer and guy, we can't ignore how she felt or her experience.
In my own view, there are a few key factors in this whole situation:
- the platform is not asmongold's, is amazon's
- saying mean this on the internet is a shitty thing to do, but it does not compare to groping someone in an office place or sharing intimate pictures to people you see eye to eye every day.
- there is also this "you flame you lose" idea on the internet, meaning that the more you try to address an issue to people that live under an anonimous profile, the more they will do the exact opposite, aka what trolling originally ment on the internet.
Being mean on the internet isn't a crime. Sexually harassing someone until they kill themselves is.
Yeah, and there's a world of difference between anonymous chat trolls being toxic and a flesh and blood coworker propositioning you.
Asmon apologized here, which is good of him, but she should've known the two events aren't comparable.
I don't think we should ignore it, no, but there's still a massive difference between the sexual harassment that was done at Blizzard and what might have occurred verbally in chat. Asmon apologized for not moderating better, and said he'd try to do better in the future. What else do you expect from him? Let's not pretend it's the same thing is all anyone is saying.
Asmon did what is possible to do as streamer and keeps doing that which sadly is barely anything
Nothing asmon can do will have any effect on a dedicated hater
All he can do is say that he hates it when his chat does that and doesn’t support it, whenever it comes up
Big point is tho that she Bashes him over it under a post where he says sth good out of pure hate towards him for sth he has no actual control over
What do you mean barely anything , there's people getting banned constantly, not to mention there's very few huge streamers like Asmon that have actual chill chats most are rather toxic. There's little he can do beyond bans and saying he does support it and chastise the chat for it.
If anything I'd say Asmon cleaned up his act and his chat somewhat from 3y ago when the interview with this woman happened cus lemme tell you 3-4y ago I def did not like Asmon cus each time I'd visit it was a toxic cesspool and not a fun place to be at.
Which brings me to your last point which is the woman using this opportunity to gain some net fame by bashing him for something he has tried to combat since then on a post where he's being supportive.
Maybe I didn’t write it that well what I meant is that asmongold did everything a streamer can do which doesn’t have a lot of impact bc a streamer doesn’t have that much control over chat
I was in no way hating against asmon here lol
That's literally what they do though? Moderate and perma ban. What more can they do?
What does his chat have to do with Activision?
Nothing. She is resorting to whataboutism to attack asmon because she has no real argument.
To be fair, she did [reconsider her stance](https://i.imgur.com/QXbM5DX.png) after being presented with new info, and I respect that.
This should be pushed to the top. It's important to acknowledge people who can admit they changed their minds - it's a very rare thing on the internet.
she didn't changed her mind though.
People said: Asmon changed
her response: ok glad to hear it
She changed her current opinion on Asmon based on the new information she recieved.
Who is she?
i hope more see this instead ranting who better at being human..
Yeah this is one of the most blatant whataboutisms I've seen
And asmon still responded with respect and class.
Twitter needs to be Nuked along with FB tiktok and instagram
And she was so nice on the show, too. Now she comes off as an asshole who specifically waited for Asmon to post that tweet just so she could feel good about herself and showing how she stands up for whamen/trying to portray Asmon in a bad light.
Bitch, get a reality grip.
Asmon is right about how hard is to combat bad actors in twitch. I mean, the guy was for a long time balancing between equal chat opportunities and keeping order, one prime example is how he for a long time refused to use sub only mode, since he is on the mindset that people shouldn't be pressured into giving him money. Sadly, many losers took this as an opportunity, resulting into some nasty comments and bad impressions for guests.
Nowadays, Asmon is doing his very best to keep his chat clean. Rarely you would see him responding to someone that tries to bait him into an argument just to make him angry or sound bad. Instead, he just shuts them down, killing the toxic behavior in its roots. It is amazing how much he improved when it comes to keeping a healthy community.
Unless he’s on zackrawr, then all he does is get baited
Even if she's right, why is she bringing that up? Is she trying to call Asmon out as a hypocrite? I couldn't imagine holding 1 man responsible for what his tens of thousands of random viewers are saying about someone.
Not to mention the moderation of his chat is entirely up to the mods during a show. You cannot expect Asmon to focus on the entertaining part of a stream AND look through a bazillion luls, kekws and copium emote spammers to find the bad apples and ban them.
I don't know how big asmon's mod team is, but I would assume something between 5 and 10 people. Even they will be hard pressed to moderate it to a point where nothing gets through.
All of this sounds like excuses, but I would love to see the ones criticizing him for not having 100 thousand people under control, actually bring forth ideas to do it. Complaining about toxicity is easy. But how about fixing it? This would be an interesting homework for them.
Yeah his mods do great work but it's hard even for them to keep up when the chat is flying past at a million miles an hour.
You know, I was going to roast her as well like everyone else is doing, but I decided to look her up to see what her reaction has been since posting her initial comment.
I'm glad to see she's a perfectly reasonable human being able to [re-assess her viewpoint](https://i.imgur.com/QXbM5DX.png) when presented with new facts. You can put down the pitchforks, guys.
Edit: a word.
Doesnt look like she was re assessing her viewpoint to me, just thanking asmon for apologizing to her, which he had already done in the past. She is still trying to connect the dots, while taking a slight side step in saying twitch is also to blame.
Appears to be shes trying to make things revolve around her.
i think especially given that they did chat about it after as he mentioned, just trying to dunk on him randomly
and wasn't she in allcraft like 3 years ago? how is she saying this about his "entire twitch audience"
Cos talking shit is free when you're a self-appointed Victim^(TM).
It’s Whataboutism. When you don’t have a valid response to an accusation, you try shifting focus back to the accuser to avoid giving any actual response.
It’s stupid and obvious, yet it works disturbingly well most of the time. She’s basically just changing the subject, because the subject looks bad for her.
Asmon is much better at calling chat out these days, when he first reacted to Zepla I remember chat being...chat and he paused the video and said "I don't know why you think you can be this way. Stop it."
I think his response is very measured here. He spoke to her about it at length, acknowledged it was an issue and said it's hard on Twitch but they try.
Is it not possible he's learnt from past failings? He's allowed to do that.
This is my thinking too. He does a pretty good job at trying to cultivate a community of people who aren't shitheads. If chat starts getting toxic at someone he calls it out. While Blizz may do this publicly, we have no idea how they operate on a day to day internally, what measures they take or don't take (though I suppose based on all the current happenings, it's mostly the "don't take"). That is definitely worth something, and realistically about as much as he can do before it falls on his mods.
It's also way harder for Asmon's mod team to deal with the issue because they are so vastly outnumbered by chat. Blizzard is a company of 4700 people as of 2012 according to Wikipedia. Asmon's chat is typically 10x that number or more, of ANONYMOUS people.
It's sad and frustrating that she had a shitty time on the show. I truly feel sorry for the shit women go through on the internet just for being women. But it really does seem like Asmon tried to do what he could, and calling him out here randomly feels like a shitty thing to do to someone who tried to go to bat for you.
She is comparing a random Twitch mob to a (supposedly) professional company... She just did more harm to herself than staying silent because her nonsense there is just making the sexist mob feeling validated.
She is basically writing something on Twitter people expect someone on Twitter would write. Making dumb statements even tho you have no idea what you are talking about.
People are going to be assholes on the internet. People shouldn't be assholes in the work place. Don't see how these really go together.
Well... I maybe just dumb, but to place a bunch of trolls (and most Twitch audience are those, at least in some part) and to compare it to your usual PR statement and perfomative action after LAWSUIT is kinda... Not the same.
One is a bunch of assholes running their mouths in one particular instance for, possibly, a very brief time. The other is systemic abuse and harassment over the course of years. Yeah. They're the same in the same sense that I am like an elephant because we both have lungs.
what is the point of her tweet??
Lmao "lemme get some attention by bringing some old shit up again",
Asmon handled it well tho
I think it’s quite a reasonable point for her to make, because she experienced a heavy amount of sexism thrown her way in that chat.
This isn’t Asmon’s fault though, he did everything he possibly could have.
But it raises a bigger issue of why people think they can act like this and ties into the Blizzard issue as a whole as it’s a gaming issue.
Saying again though: Asmon himself didn’t do anything wrong so she shouldn’t be directing this at him to try and one up him.
Chat is part of a greater problem than even Blizzard is of the gaming industry. There isn't much you can do to combat anonymity.
The. Why are some chats not as toxic?
Asmon's mods do have control over his chat though, and Asmon is responsible for his mods, and thus ultimately for what happens in chat. The two cases are definitely very different though, both in nature and in degree, but if it's true that she got sexually harassed by people in chat and Asmon or the mods did not do their best to combat that, her point is valid to a certain extent. Still, Asmon's response here is decent enough imo.
He has the ability to completely disable chat, so heavier weapons still exist. Now, this would lose some viewer engagement but then the question becomes how much $$$ is harassment worth to you?
And chat messages are faster read than banned and banning stops someone for a max of 1-2 min till they created a new account
Emote-only chat Subscriber-only chat.. just a few ways to control the arseholes in your chat. Asmon is one of my fav streamers but boy his chat can be complete and utter Morons at times
Did emote only even exist in 2017?
if you read the twitter thread the issue is she was reading the hosts chat, which wasn't asmongolds, asmon was just a guest on this panel, he does not have moderation power over someone elses chat.
I mean she has a point every time I've watched an allcraft or interview with a female chat is just terrible, I remember it being exceptionally bad when hazel first came on allcraft. I just wish asmon put chat in sub mode back then. I get it, it's super hard to moderate chats over 20k people with no slow mode etc.
So basically she is here to remind Asmon no matter how many times he apologized for her bad experience, she will never let him actually go forth and criticize anyone else. You're never going to make progress if people aren't allowed to learn from their mistakes and teach others about those mistakes. Silly.
Twitter is a cesspool of suck.
Twitter is a shit.
Yup, this is classic twitter bullshit of trying to dunk on people to make yourself feel fuzzy.
I had a girlfriend like this.
It didn't work out.
What does this even have to do with the Blizzard situation?
How can you compare TWITCH CHAT being sexist, who are just random people watching a stream, to BLIZZARD employees and superiors, harassing other employees PHYSICALLY, creating inequality, and subjecting others to horrible workplace conditions? How can you even compare the two situations?
BLIZZARD EMPLOYEES ARE PAID, CONTRACTED WORKERS AND TWITCH CHAT ARE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS SPAMMING KEKW AND OMEGALUL ON THE INTERNET WATCHING A BALD MAN DO FUNNY THING.
What happened to her was very bad, I get it, and it's terrible that she was affected by chat being sexist and harassing her. But the problem is that she's acknowledge that Asmon has changed, and they talked it out directly after the show anyways, so what's the point of bringing this up?
Thanks for reading this, I just don't like it when people downplay a person advocating for real change for something like the Blizzard lasuit, it just gets to me on a personal level.
Exactly! Thank you for the comment.
Its like although they are both fighting for the same cause, she is trying to take away the credibility from him, and since he is on the top of the comments, people wont look more at it.
I have no idea who this woman is so this comes mostly across as childish to me. Is he not allowed to comment on something because random people on the internet are assholes?
I hope she realizes that this can only backfire.
***This will be my final post here and i will probably delete this thread in a couple of days:***
Firt of all, thank you Asmon for taking the time to talk about the incident and verifying that you **indeed** spent time with her after the stream to talk about the incident.
Michele posted on her personal twitter this about the backlash she recieved on her response to Asmongold:
*"When the comments prove your point, Jfc, these guys. It's worth noting that Blizzard specifically pays to advertise to some of the most toxic, sexist audiences on Twitch nad yet their leadership tries to say this isn't systemic. Sexism is everywhere in the system".*
She has been making tweets like this throughout the day, completely ignoring the fact that people are trying to tell her that she is comparing two very different things, and that her comment is a generalized issue that has to do with the toxicity in steaming platforms.
I personally replied to her tweet and tried to explain to her that the reason most people reacted that way to her was **not** because they think that her experience is invalid, but instead, they think that the opportunity she chose to say that was counter productive.
I personally wrote to her tweet:
"*The reason why you recieved backlash on your reply to asmon, was not because they do not value your experience.*
*You blamed asmongold for being inactive during your experience, when he said that he spent at least 1 hour trying to talk to you about it after stream.*
*According to him, the show was hosted under someone else and he didnt have a moderator there, so he is not the one to blame.*
*They are upset with you because it looked like you tried to throw him under the bus for an another reason which is the Twitch Toxicity.*
*Then this was blown out of porpotion and it became about women being silenced and thought as irrelevant. I dont think that this is what people were trying to tell you.*
*i am very positive that people would have a different reaction if you hadnt chosen that post to bring it up.*
*I completely agree with you that it is unacceptable to feel like this during a show and you are completely right to be upset. I'm also sorry you did not attend any future shows because of this."*
(wrote this on 4 tweets)
She did not reply at all to my tweet and she immediately blocked me, but she kept the replies to my tweet blaming asmongold for having a toxic fan base and that we are sexist and an angry mob.
Before she blocked me, i managed to see other people complaining about being blocked by her and she has only kept the positive rensposes to her tweets.
I find it extremely sad that people are like this.
They both come from the same place, trying to be advocates about the extremely poor working conditions Blizzard has offered in the past years, and yet, she seems to be so focused about trying to push her agenda.
Completely generalizing the issue, and trying to make all the people sound like a mad and angry mob.
Asmon apologized to her so many times, and she still is trying to make this a huge issue out of nowhere. About women being silenced and being disregarded everywhere. I personally take issue with this, because she is capitalizing out of the backlash she recieved for a completely different reason.
literally drama baiting
feels like such an unnecessary attack from Michelle, she shouldn't bend the situation to try to make it about her
She clearly wants the clout.
She was the host of Blizzcon for 6 years, 2013-2019. She is close enough to Blizzard that she has an NPC in game, as does her husband. To show solidarity with the victims, her guild isn't raiding for a day and she's not going to log into any Blizzard games for a day. In response to the lawsuit, she said it goes beyond "what she had heard and experienced," I feel like the "man, you did nothing back then" applies to her relationship with Activision Blizzard as well.
It sucks that happened to her, but she's essentially defending Blizzard by inserting herself into a comment that is calling them out for their behavior, and implying that Asmongold has no stance to make such an attack on Blizzard. I feel like I know where her loyalty lies, and it's not with the victims in Blizzard's offices. I'm sure her one day of not logging into their games with echo with resounding effect throughout the industry. /s
>To show solidarity with the victims, her guild isn't raiding for a day
Holy my fuck, my mind is blown, this is just laughable
These are adults pretending someone gives a shit about whether they raid or not
Probably not the post to call him out under but asmongold’s chat could always use more moderation whenever anything about women show up on the screen. The amount of cringe people spamming hotpokket whenever a women does anything is a mental illness
Why do people say that asmongold cannot control his chat? Their are many big streamers who moderate their chat very well and have cultivated a positive audience. A streamer’s chat is very often reflective of the streamer themselves. You pop into someone like cohhcarnage’s steam and even when he holds like 20k cowers the chat is still very respectful and their are no spergs. You pull up xqcs chat and it’s chaos. Streamers can very well change how their chat acts through moderation and setting an example
Asmongold's Twitch audience aren't his fucking employees. She's comparing employee conduct with herding rats.
The Allcraft she is talking about was on hotted89's channel 3 years ago, yet she is blaming Asmongold's community when it was not even on his channel, and chooses to say it 3 years later to deflect on actual issues, lmao what a joke. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29UYHU2swdE
Once a witch, always a witch. No matter how many positive interactions Zack has with hazelnuttygames or zepla, some people will be convinced Zack is the devil because that's what their tribe thinks.
She's going way too far, yes. And it's an obvious attention grab. Disgusting.
It was years ago. But then there is the question why he attracts so many douchebags.
This is a "whataboutism".
I agree that chat is full of hooligans, but there's a reason you can (and probably should) turn it off.
But as others have pointed out, this is deflection and the two situations aren't even remotely comparable.
You can only moderate so much in a stream of tens of thousands, but no one (except Asmon) is being paid to look at the chat. Anyone watching his channel can turn chat off. Even banning probably has little effect as you can create as many Twitch accounts as you want.
There's no comparison to flesh and blood humans not being reprimanded for acting like animals in what's supposed to be a place of business, where many people don't have much of a choice as to whether or not they can be there, where many people were gaslit about their performance and terrified of being fired and blacklisted in the industry.
Asmon's chat sucks, for sure, but the two situations are not even remotely comparable.
I wouldn’t say ‘too far’ but she’s also adding nothing of value to the conversation by pointing a finger.
If you watched the video/clip where Asmon explains his reasoning for tweeting this (his rant right before the tweet), he isn’t happy that Blizzard shields/points fingers for the sake of being virtuous instead of just taking action and solving their problems.
I agree with Asmon. When you point fingers and your entire value system is based off saying you’re virtuous or someone else isn’t virtuous, you’re pretty much automatically talking too much and not doing enough.
For her to point a finger for the sole purpose of bringing up something that happened in the past is not relevant to the current conversation. The only way it could be relevant is if she believes Asmon is not allowed to do/believe the right thing, because at one point in time he didn’t do the right thing. And if she does believe that, that’s really stupid/fucked up.
I don’t think she’s going too far, I just think she’s doing nothing of value, and is milking the teets of Twitter more than she is taking a firm stance on anything.
Someone had mean comments directed towards them on the internet, more news at 11.
We’re comparing a business corporate’s mishaps where there are multiple tiers of executives and leaders in charge of their employees’ well-being, with a group of friends/accomplices running an online interview/podcast with an audience that spans all over the globe. What kind of crack is she on about, cuz I definitely won’t want any.
This is exactly how you turn people against a noble cause.
Wait a second...is this Woman seriously comparing a Giant Ass fucking Company where clear Names are known with a faceless Twitch Mob?
She is totally going too far. It smells so heavily of the thought Process of
"Ooooh a #metoo opportunity for coverage and more audience lets do it!"
Also when was that Interview? 3 FUCKING YEARS AGO! Why didnt she speak out right afterwards? No she speaks out in a Moment where they should be on the same Side. Its purely Backstabbing a fellow ContentCreator for her own Profit.
This Gal should be ashamed of herself. She knew she would force him into a apologizing defensive Stance so she could get a " Yesss i got him" Kick out of it, and throwing Dirt at someone who always is trying his hardest to keep the Community under Control, and openly admits when failing to do so.
Blizzard choose employees though HR, Asmon can’t do shit. The best thing he can do is banning them eventually but new people come.
And it takes like 5 minutes to make a new account
She’s comparing a bunch of fucking idiots on twitch to a bunch of fucking idiots at a multidollar company
blizzard literally harasses their workers and this chick was like “how can i make this about me?” oh my god shut up
I'm more concerned about the people who upvoted her tweet. How did 724 people agree it was relevant to the subject?
it's 1.2k now, it's kinda sad, she has completely backtracked her opinion ever since her post and now she is happy that asmon has "changed".
But she is also trying to turn this into an issue about women speaking up according to her tweet
sounds pretty weird to me.
She's attention seeking and saw her opportunity.
My guess is that Asmon doesnt try talking sense into his chat because it is literally impossible and he knows he would have to give up eventually.
You know how Twitch chat can be dumb and ignorant at times. After all, you shouldnt take Twitch chat too seriously because its just a bunch of random people, some with a ton of arrogance and hiding behind their omnicient internet persona.
Except he's been talking sense into his twitch chat ever since he has taken those last few breaks. More and more he and his mods have been taking action against people who he doesn't want in his community, cultivating a more positive community. For someone who's watched his stream for the last few years I've noticed that change become far more noticeable
Typical twitter cloutchaser. The situations arent nearly the same but she brings up old shit thats been talked about 3 years ago. Life must be so boring if you still get off to this stuff.
one of the most blatant clout tweets ive ever seen, kinda sad considering the severity of the issues asmon is addressing
"You're not wrong" straight into whataboutism instead of talking about the current situation isn't a good look, sorry.
And the deleting random shit out of your game that looks like it's just SJW Twitter activism just isn't a good look either. The players don't care about that shit they want a better game and not that the only work you do on your game is deleting random shit that does literally nothing.
I doubt anyone of those bad actors in blizzard will go "oh shit they deleted an NPC now I better stop harrasing my female co-workers". If you wanted to make the players happy you'd give em 1 month of playtime for free to currently subscribed players and tell them it is so you have time to stop working on the game and addressing those problems and working them out in the meantime. But that would cost actually money and just shows that nothing about those greedy shit that allowed this to happen in the first place changed.
So every time Blizzard has shat on their audience they should have just gotten them under control, got it.
She's comparing Blizzard having control over who it employs and who remains employed based on their conduct as employees, to Asmon having control over who watches a public livestream.
This is made worse, judging by Zack's response -having talked to her at length about it immediately after the show implies he was lead to believe they had worked it out at the time.
The fact that she's bringing it up now seems weird, opportunistic, and in bad faith. PogO
It sucks that she was forced to have a bad experience with his chat, it really does. But there's no comparing these things. He has no contract signed or professional agreement with his chat.
This person is totally disingenuous and I do think a lot of people use these sorts of issues as marketing opportunities for themselves which is fairly gross to people who've genuinely suffered.
As Asmon states here, he discussed this at length with her after the show and I imagine it was resolved, years later she decides to make this tweet in hopes of picking up a few new fans.
You can call me a "sexist" but this a bad actor, if she genuinely cared about it this would have been an issue years ago. Not excusing idiots in Twitch chat either, but that's a Twitch moderation problem, not an Asmon problem. They're running a show, expecting them to stop the show and yell at a handful of people in chat and give them the attention they are looking for is unprofessional.
What about MEEEEEE?
Doesn’t sound like he did nothing.
She's just another snowflake, nothing new.
'your entire twitch audience were sexist asshole to me'
Really? I must have amnesia or something because I don't remember saying a single word about her.
Does she blame NFL fans when the players beat their wives or drive someone out to a quarry to murder them? And ok let’s go with her logic, why isn’t she holding blizz/activision responsible for all the shitty shit wow stans say? Cmon wtf
100% going way too far... this is what I'd call victim baiting. When you have 50000 people watching you. It's absolutely impossible to control the chat unless you emote mode and even then. I'm convinced with these types of people you can do everything you possibly can to avoid stuff like this and they will still pick out a problem.
I mean its just sad to try to dilute the validity of a statement with your own need for justice and attention. As if no one else was thinking or feeling this way, what would she said if it was anyone but Asmond. She even agreed it was a valid point so why misdirect attention away from the topic to seek vengeance?
I think everyone can agree that Asmon is the best, but even Asmon doesn't like his own chat.
Asmon got a lot better at curbing toxicity in his chat. For one, more mods, and two, he's finally letting his mods go into sub only mode.
Michele, if you use the current situation to gain pity points and make this about yourself, you need to take a step back and realize you are part of the problem.
Imagine alienating your game’s biggest content creator
What a stupid fucking comment.
Great job Muddying the waters of real problems Michele by not realizing that a person is not and can't be responsible for the comments made by anonymous chatters on twitch.
Eww. Comparing people that molest their employees to viewers of a twitch chat spamming. Fucking gross what people do just to have a grab at being relevant.
You can't get a chat like that under control, no matter how hard it is getting moderated. She knows this but still acts like this? Fuck that.
She's weirdly defending rapists and molesters because they gave her a paycheck
Asmon replied elegantly. Imo if he said anything else she probably would have taken it as an insult and a direct attack. She obviously wanted to start something.
I also like how she says "your entire twitch audience". Labels all of us as sexist lmao...
Not sure how she can somehow draw a parallel between whats happening at Blizzard, their responses and then to an interview with Asmon. She could just walk out on the interview if she didnt think it was taken care of. Its significantly different for women at Blizzard to “just walk out” when families depend on the job etc. The higher ups at Blizzard also have a direct responsibility for whats happening at their work, Asmon much less so for whats happening in his Twitch channel. Hes been significantly better at calling out idiots and tell mods to ban them too.
Word. The fact that she brings it up now, of all time? Like wtf? And they had already talked about it after the show back when it happened. So why bring it up again? It's like watching horror stories of crazy gfs bringing up 5 years worth of grudge everytime you fight. She'd make a great Dawii tho.
Asmon talking about despicable work conditions at Blizzard and she veers off road into this crap? Asmon doesn't employ people in chat.
She just [tweeted this](https://twitter.com/michelemorrow/status/1420278989763989508), it's all chill, calm your tits lol
Still kinda rubs me the wrong way man. I mean I'm glad it came to a aggreable end but comparing a chat being a douchebag once to years of systemic abuse and harassment doesn't exactly make me feel she is acting in good faith but merely was offset by him owning up to it and decided to let bygones be bygones. Maybe I'm just an asshole but I don't really like when people compare two things that are, in essence. the same but so far apart in scale it's like comparing a firecracker to a tomahawk. Especially when the firecracker is popping off to people firing tomahawks.
"Words are a Power. But once spoken that Power can turned against yourself. So think before speaking" Old but Gold.
Doesnt matter she used the Opportunity for a classic "bohohoho #metoo" backstab at him to get more limelight
my tits are very calm lol
my point is still valid regardless, she went too far on that one, she is comparing 2 different things and creates an issue that is not entirely on his control and also, chosing a bad time to bring it up.
EDIT: also, she says "thank you for that" when asmongold on his previous tweet literally tells her that they already talked about this in depth.
so this is just made on purpose in my opinion to put some out of topic blame on him.
Of Course she did it purely to gain Attention because many People follow the Topic around Blizzard and Asmongolds Reactions and his Opinions on that Matter are the Talk since the Beginning. What better Opportunity to get back at him and gain Coverage at the same Time could there be?
"it wasn't fully your fault" isn't chill at all. This person sounds like a total fucking typical Twitter warrior. Injecting herself in something totally different like that so she makes Asmon look shitty and herself look vulnerable. Fuck her.
She blamed him for attention then said everything is OK.
What a selfish lady.
I don’t think she is making a comparison, just noting that given how vocal asmongold has been in the past few days supporting the women at blizzard, she wishes she could have experienced more of that same support in one interaction. She even responded to his response saying that ultimately twitch chat isn’t his fault, so there’s additional context missing here. It is kind of cringe that Asmon was able to respond like an adult to her point but everyone on Reddit is once again shitting on this girl.
The issue here is that she already knew about this and she had already talked about it with asmongold according to his response to her.
I agree that it sucks being bullied online by a twitch mob, but she is a gamer herself and she knows what Twitch chat is, i think that she is missing the point here and she has not moved on from this incident.
It would be great is she typed something like: It's very good to see how you have managed to evolve since that interaction i had with you.
she is trying to take meaning of his response to blizard and make him sound like a hypocrite.
Ya we all like Asmongold, that’s why we are on this subreddit. But I do think that attacking anyone who ever says anything negative about him and being super eager to jump in and defend him is not something that he has ever appreciated. Why is she obligated to compliment how he may have changed? In his response to her he acknowledges that it’s embarrassing that she had an experience like that on his show, as he should. I’m sure that in that moment being on his show sucked and was an awful experience for her. He can’t control twitch chat, but he does have massive influence over his community, and more recently has been much more active in shutting that stuff down. Just seems like that may not have happened in this one case however many years ago. How many years is the cutoff where women aren’t allowed to be upset about something like this anymore?
Watched the interview. Asmongold was completely respectful to this woman and treated her the same as anyone else.
She was offended by twitch chat. Ok but did twitch chat grope her? Did twitch chat use butt plugs on her? Did twitch chat physically and sexually harass her? No, but this happened at Blizzard.
Do you by any chance remember when the twitch chat incident occurs in the interview? it's 2.5h long and i cant find it.
If she can't see the difference between inherent problems inside a company and a group of spergs and trolls from all over the world - who are in no way connected to Asmon - I've got some bad news for her.
Yea Asmun, control them, YOUR WORKERS, in chat. Omegalul.
She is not entirely wrong. Your chat is what you make it to be. "b-but they are randoms!" - you cull you herd, you remove bad apples, you moderate your shit and after a while you get a community you deserve. Horsen, xqc and asmon have completely different chats, to say nothing of small streamers where every community is different and unique.
Asmon was attracting certain types of people to his streams, and that was the result. Denying it is stupid.
Only way to prevent chat from doing something is to have no chat. Other than that, only thing mods, plural, can do is whack-a-mole idiots as they see them. It's completely unreasonable to expect one individual or even group of them to control a place where anyone can enter with next to no barrier to entry.
And sure, there are things like sub only mode but as the man himself pointed out when he saw me making this point some time ago in this sub, it's just gonna ruin the fun everyone and impact the stream in more negative way than the spergs ever can so he doesn't like doing them. I personally would probably still do that in his shoes but his point is also valid. Punishing everyone insead of just permabanning the idiots as they come isn't inherently better solution.
I mean emote only mode could work
We are talking about a company and their employees. this is a streamer Asmon himself and hes moderators aren't enough to pick them all out at once, but I believe eventually they will. It just takes time its literally 5 vs 5000 assholes. She says ''entire twitch audience'' why do I have a hard time believing it was hes entire audience?
Where to start with this one.
1. I dont see how the two connect.
2. One is a streamer with a few mods and thousands of viewers who (and I know this is shocking) dont work for Asmon. They come independeny and on their own volition to watch him. Best thing Asmon can do is to direct the mods towards banning and timing out.
Completely different from a multibillion gaming industry titan with employees participating in drinking parties and sexual harssment (both physical and lectical)....
3. Asmon has said and acted towards squandering such behaviors in his chat. I think the biggest two where with T&E and Hazel if I am not mistaken and there has been improvement since there were no issues ehen Zepla came on Allcraft
This is whataboutism at its finest.
The fact that he talked about it with her afterwards kind of indicates that they solved this issue no? Did she bring this up just to be relevant? Who is she?
100% bad that she had sexist chat against her but it does not add up.
She is using this to promote her personal agenda. I just had a glimpse at her tweets and it's BAD . Like really bad. Its echo chamber of non stop virtue signaling of twisting a real problem to the extreme that it creates a problem on its own. This is a legit example of pseudo feminism or pseudo woke mentality that actually hurts the real people who try to fight for the real cause.
Wouldn't call it too far but definitely inappropriate. She's comparing apples to oranges. Both are the same problem but are different fundamentally.
I'm a new viewer and I think the way he's handled Zepla has been pretty good. Showed a video of her's and gave the chat a talking to/banning ppl when they were being disgusting. Had her on the show. Did an event with her. Yelling at his audience when they get weird about shipping them.
Like that's good? I'm guessing that's better than what he did with Michele?
Is she going too far? No, but Asmon is also correct in his statement. It is incredibly hard to stamp this stuff out in chat. You can ban people, but when it takes less than 5 minutes to just create a new account and continue, that doesn't work out very well. Trying to control Twitch chat, especially on Asmon's level of viewership is a losing battle. You can only really hope to get rid of the worst offenders, and even that is difficult.
This is largely true for any decently sized streamer. There are of course exceptions, like CohhCarnage, but he is an exception to prove the rule. Cohh from very early on cultivated the style of community he has now. Heck, his own reasoning for this was because he was sick of the toxic culture around MMOs. He effectively wanted his community to be like one big friendly guild. He pushed that from very early on in his streaming career. He has cultivated a dedicated fan base that align with those values, not to mentions EMPLOYEES (not enlists, he actually pays them) dedicated mods to keep things undercontrol. You can't go a minute in his chat without seeing a mod, compare that to mods in Asmon's channel and you are lucky to see one once in 10 minutes, and normally they are meme'ing along with the rest of chat.
I don't really see a way that Asmon could realistically improve things, not with how big he has become. I don't even think nuking it and starting over would even manage, as the current community would likely just follow him. To be honest it was this situation that pushed me away from Asmon's channel to begin with. But, I watched his clips on Youtube and realized that despite the actions of his community, he was actually a pretty cool guy, reasonable even. So while I do watch his streams almost every day, I almost always have chat closed, because it is just too much for me 90% of the time.
Her whole career has been a case of throw enough shit at the wall and some of it will stick.
I actually remember this podcast she has mastered the skill of saying words without actually really saying anything
Really not surprised she's tried to jump in for a bit of clout
No clue of anything but she sounds attention grabby and even a bit pathetic.
She is merely eroding away the actual point of the conversation by injecting her own nonsense….
Yeah because she made the entire dialogue about her out of nowhere. Who is that bitch anyways?
Man, some people are really good at making the conversation about themselves.
I know so many toxic people that will try to derail the conversation by bringing up some shit that happened years ago, just so they can look the victim.
It is too far. While she is right to be annoyed, Zack's chat are not paid staff, she isn't forced to interact even during an interview and its ENTIRELY in her power to ignore it/disable chat. Comparing a bunch of sweaty nerds saying obviously repulsive things to literal sexual harassments and a suicide is really shallow and self centered.
Moderating chat and being a private company is 2 different things, wtf? Like how does that argument even make sense?
I could be wrong but wasn’t allcraft streamed exclusively on hotted’s channel back then?
She's making it all about her. It's like victim hood is the greatest status these days. Asmon can't really control his twitch audience.
How are these even considered a similar situation? One is long lasting terrible working conditions while the other is viewers trolling/being mean for a show.
These two things are not the same situation and should not be treated as so.
What does his chat have to do with his statement on Blizzard??
Such a dumb comparison.
Don't get me wrong, a lot of chat members can be toxic as fuck, but that is beside the point, we are twisting statements about Blizzard to somehow relate to Twitch chat's behavior?
Nope, this is just a classic example of "hey guys, don't forget about me, I'm a victim".
How do people get offended by everything. It's literally twitch chat, a group of losers that watch other people have fun and get money on the internet the whole day.
The problem is not even people being offended but other people (like asmon) who cator to them and blow everything out of proportion (he means well).
Old asmon would have made fun out of this bitch on his stream from giving life to drama so old cause as he said they talked about it at lenght off stream.
At this point she is just looking for attention so she gets views (I'm assuming she is a content creator)
Her interjection was unnecessary as fuck, like what was the point?
Just doesn’t sit right with me to bring up an episode from 4 years ago (correct me if I’m wrong).
But go off I guess?
Nah and yeah..
Entire twitch audience? Nah it sure can feel like that I'm pretty sure.
I also recall bans flying left and rigth but if mynmemory serves they didn't even have half the mods online? I may misremember that.
And if he talked do her bout it afterwards seeing how he usually acts with things I can imagine he tried to work it out with her and apologised buy its not entirely fair to set him up like she just did.
I've seen some videos of Asmongold. I like his response to her here, seems like a decent man.
Asmon’s chat can be absolute fucking assholes. If he talked to her about this after the interview and tried to get it under control like he said then she shouldn’t have said anything. He hosts a live tv show and Activision is a huge corporation. Big difference.
The thing is, he did. This was from Allcraft like 4 years ago and wasn't even Asmons channel. Things were handled back then but then she brings it back up now to act like all the blizzard stuff happening is comparable to "Your chat said mean things" and I gotta be real, it's a twitch chat if you take it seriously it's like reading 4chan and take it seriously. It's filled with a bunch of spergs no matter what channel you go to. The bigger you are the more idiots you have there and you can only mod so hard and people will slip through for a few lines of text. The thing I hate is how in the comments people who are her followers are taking her side and saying that Asmongod is a part of the problem... When he clearly isn't. (And even after Asmongod sorted it with her in this post she then took to her Twitter to still complain) then she had the typical "Man Splaining" post to people who replied to her that were just laying out the hard facts about what happened. Honestly what a disgusting person that is making it all about her to get attention and clout. Honestly forgot she even existed. There were such better ways to go about this but she chose the worst possible way to do it...
Just checked her Twitter,she's the kind of person you'd want to stay as far away from as possible.
How is this the same thing? Zack doesnt have any power over his audience regardless of what he tells them some of themm will always be bad and act poorly, thus is not within his control
Blizzard higher ups abusing employees is WITHIN their control
What annoys me after going through that thread, and this is a major annoyance with twitter discussions, judgment without context.
The people replying to Asmon's reply, the ones saying he's doing the same thing as Blizzard. They automatically think "owh she got him" and then saying "it isn't so hard to have mods & ban people".
Had they looked around at the other replies they'd see people explain it wasn't even on his own channel, and that for the past few years you can clearly see Asmon manages his chat really well not just with mods but calling out toxicity as it happens & doing ban appeals as fair as he can be.
The girl even replied saying its good that things have changed, she just chose to avoid his streams after what happened so she didn't know. Still a bit annoyed how she chose to take his initial comment but it is what is now.
This is blown out of proportion.
Her past experience will always be valid and she should feel at ease talking about it whenever she wants. She's factual and not wrong but simply lacks the tact to convey the right message given the situation.
This could've been an opportunity to give credit to people that change for the better with demonstrated evidence over many years but instead felt like throwing Asmon under the bus.
Give and take go both ways. We should be able to:
1. Acknowledge something bad happened in the past,
2. Acknowledge that there have been conversations and efforts to rectify the issue, and
3. Acknowledge improvements made since then.
There's no need to condemn her for her choice of words.
You probably dont want to hear this, but asmon absolutely has control over the chat. He's set an example and not moderated his community in a way that would prevent this. There are plenty of other streamers that have built communities that don't spam awful shit in the chat.
If you get a dog, you train the dog, or else they are shitting all over the house, biting other dogs and spamming guests on your twitch channel.
Sure he can't "control" them, but he let it get to that point.
No one deserves harassment. We need to do better and asmon shouldn't be afraid to ban people in chat who act like asshats
A streamer controlling the behavior of their viewers isn't even close to being comparable to a company controlling the behavior of its employees. Especially when it comes to actual *physical* harassment and assault versus people saying mean things in text.
What an absurd fucking comparison to make.
Remember when **\[BAD\]** happened to me years ago ? Well i'm feeling it again at this very convenient moment. How infortunate, don't you think ?
A pathetic attempt to stay relevant.
"get your chat under control" what?
Asmongold has a large following yes, but does not have absoloute control over what they say.
Freedom of speech and sexual assault are completely separate things
Pivoting so hard she's gonna break her back.
Attention seeking much?
Pretty sure chat has nothing to do with the show. They can troll or say as they please.
Asmongold should not apologize for something that is inherently a problem with Twitch itself.
This person just wanted another 5 minutes and jumped up on stage as soon as she saw an opportunity.
Twitch Chat != Multi Billion Dollar Business.
Asshat Trolls in a chat vs molesting women at work and no one doing anything about it.
The thousands in his chat aren’t his employees.
It’s a little different.
I think she is being quite unprofessional in taking the chat personally, and blaming it’s conduct on Asmon.
Attempting to put someone on the spot to serve the purpose of belittling their accountability due to a personal beef is generally divisive behaviour.
Especially coming out of the woodwork and not diffusing negative feelings in private, but using it as ammunition publically on Twitter.
She’s stoking the fire, not putting it out and that’s how you burn a bridge.
She’s definitely going after the wrong person, glad she posted a follow up comment to kind of clear the air. While Asmon may not look it he’s definitely an ally to equality, and it sucks that he gets attacked so often by the people he would gladly help.
Come on did the chat really say those things? and if they did I am sure they were ban... Asmon doesn't put up with that shit.
I'm not sure how people are missing the point here, it's pretty obvious if you pay attention. For context, I have no idea who this is and I wasn't watching his streams whenever this person was on.
Her point seems to be that Asmon is also guilty of performative action in regards to his community because of how little he does to keep it in check. The only time I've seen him try to reel chat in is when they get REALLY, REALLY bad. Everything below that high bar gets nothing though.
This attitude that Twitch chat is too hard to properly moderate is a meme, because you can set up moderator bots to ban/timeout people who use certain phrases or emotes, which would go a long way to culling the toxicity out of it. But Twitch chat is mostly a scapegoat, because the real issue is the attitudes of the people behind chat.
I'll play Devil's Advocate here for a moment. Arguably, a lot of the latent sexism that flares up in chat, or here on reddit, is cultivated by Asmon himself. Ogling attractive female characters, comments about boob/ass/whatever sliders, advocating for skimpy armor, etc. all contribute to an overall perspective of women as sexual objects. Whether or not this is him hamming it up on stream is largely irrelevant, because making the same "jokes" constantly DOES normalize the subject, especially to viewers. Asmon might know in his head that he doesn't actually think about women this way, but he does NOT know this about his viewers that listen to the jokes.
This either reinforces or builds the mentalities that Michele here is complaining about. It's the reason that you often see feminists argue against these kinds of portrayals in video games or related media. Wearing revealing clothing is not inherently bad, considering how often women who play these games dress their chars up in them because they like it (FF14 anyone?), but it is the manner in which they are portrayed or perceived that is the problem.
Okay, Devil Advocacy over. I hope that came across well enough, I don't normally try and lay out arguments by text. I also want to say that I know Zack is a pretty chill dude for the most part, and doesn't actually view women as sex objects, but just likes to see hot girls in revealing clothing. So do I! But the persona of Asmon cranks it up enough to the point where that line gets blurred to the viewers, and hence you get a mix of chatters (and reddit posters).
I'm not even gonna say that he MUST take X action or MUST make Y statements, because that never goes well. Just that there is more that could be done to combat the toxicity, and calling it out more would go a long way to making people like this more comfortable being on the show and receiving the attention of however many tens of thousands of viewers are tuned in.
So Asmon talked with her after the show because of the idiots in chat and that should have been the end of it. Typical entitled "Oh! I'm a princess, I deserve the best" kind of person there. Would like to watch the show in question and see what actually happened.
here you go. of course the part where she just leaves is cut out.
As much as I think it's unfair to pin the harassment she received all on Asmon, she was harassed by the viewers of his show, and from the perspective of a guest that's one and the same thing if you can't adequately control it. So no, I don't think she went too far, it's just unfortunate because Zack's heart is in the right place, but that can be undermined by instances like what happened on his show with her.
The fact that people are attacking her for bringing this up is part of the overall issue with harassment in the first place. She's getting shit on top of getting shit in the first place, if she were to browse these forums and see what's being said about her, she's not going to attribute that to Randomuser420, she's going to attribute that to Asmongold and his "toxic community". Anyone would if they're not an avid participant, that goes for any community. The best way to prove her wrong is to just not be toxic, be respectful, and move on.
Asmon really handled that well! :)
He may use to be immature but now he’s exuding with class and his thoughts are wisely communicated.
Asmon can't control us. Blizzard can control its staff.
He isn't responsible for a bunch of random people. They are.
People join his streams purely to ruin it. He's had issues of people joining him in WoW while on air and being racist purely to get him banned from WoW
this feels a little bit like deflecting.
"your chat was mean to me and because you didn't magicaly fix it in a one second, I decided to completely ignore your comment about awful working conditions."
wow, nice mental gymnastic