T O P

Does anyone else have a moral obligation not to invest in certain stocks?

Does anyone else have a moral obligation not to invest in certain stocks?

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Kaufnizer

How many people are saying they won't buy these stocks but then buy the index funds that contain them?


SpaceTacosFromSpace

Yeah avoiding them in indexes is the hard part.


boffum

just buy ESG version of the index, it's very easy actually


Hunkachunk

Nestlé has an ESG rating... I did have a dialogue with the fund manager on my ESG rated index, but they were simply following highly ESG rated standards in their picks which made my least favourite company pass through. 😓


BOYGENIUS538

Yeah that’s really hard


AmateurOntologist

Exactly. If they have a 401k or similar they definitely own stock in most of these industries through their index funds.


MrButtcheekzz

A little different as I am a trader, not an investor, but I definitely do this. There are companies that I just refuse to play on the long side, no matter how good the set up is. I am, however, more than happy to short them and will often look for opportunities to do so. Can't lie, as a little guy in the market, it feels pretty good to profit from the decline of arguably evil companies, even if it's just temporary dips.


spaceset51

Facebook is a large contributing factor to the mental decline of our society.


DenHelligeVeganer

This. I would invest in tobacco, arms and dying children before investing in Facebook


IanWorthington

You can invest in dying children now? Wall Street is showing unusual innovation!


trash2019

I'm looking to short living children


deGoblin

Just don't do the naked version.


Sung-got-Drip

eugghhh, this thread suddenly became cursed real fucking quick


salleyva

So much for a conversation about morals


permanently_borked

Meh, as long as it's not abusive naked shorting


PeanutButterNipple

Nike


spetalkuhfie

What's the ticket of the ETF for dying children? Please also add the war momentum factor etf


jjman72

$DOAKID


tharussianphil

Pick any precious metals ETF in a country like Russia lol


Think_please

VTF


whatabadsport

$DEDBB


renok_archnmy

Puts on dying children please. Maybe we should short that mfer.


unfonfortable

Apple knowingly paid child workers to make their products


kimi-r

Same here, FB & Amazon for me. I actually did put some into Amazon last year but sold the next day after I found myself thinking wtf am I doing. Sure you'll get profit from them, but if rather make money on more moral companies


leblumpfisfinito

> moral companies That's an oxymoron lol.


Doctor_Jensen117

Not to worry you can do all of that with Nestle!


romulus509

At least some of Lockheed Martin have led to real advances and positive effects… Facebook on the other hand


Mr_Blott

Speak for yourself, *Total Boss Babe* here, I'd sell you some essential oils but I only sell to friends


AlaskaPeteMeat

I wanna be part of your downline, though!


Baggy_Socks

But children *are* dying because of Facebook


microg-o-meter

This sounds like a new potential ETF :-)


therealowlman

It’s ridiculous to single them out. Twitter, Snapchat , YouTube and TikTok are right along with them - social media is just a bad idea with a great business model.


TJPII-2

Social media bad … Reddit good. Just saying.


johncopter

Ironic cause Reddit IS social media.


Summebride

Assume you're making a joke?


doc4science

None of those are good (with the exception of YouTube to some degree), but Facebook is on another level of bad.


treake

I would say Twitter is just as bad


rbatra91

I’m with you It’s so disgustingly toxic it’s unreal Someone posts something good - someone immediately posts something negative or uncharitable


scarberia123

Sounds like Reddit


Proffesssor

> ridiculous to single them out. I get your point but FBs effect on society is well documented and widespread. Twit has nowhere near the impact, and I haven't seen any evidence that they use the same manipulative strategies as FB, but I don't use it, so I don't know first hand. The only other one you mention that might have as much impact is YT, haven't they been more proactive about counteracting the negative influence?


therealowlman

The only difference is one is more successful than the other and has a larger platform. Whoever wins the category is always going to be the worst. People who thinking FB disappeared the situation would improve are generally pretty naive and want to believe the company was to blame, not the massive universe of bad actors on the internet. And, it’s unpopular to say on Reddit but - Facebook invests serious money and staffing in the externalities of their platform and fake news etc. I honestly can’t say that of most major corporations towards the ills they commit. Facebook has a near impossible ethical line to ride, you literally can’t choose any side at all without half of the public hating you for it. BOTH the left and right wings accuse FB of being a biased agent for the opposing politics. If FB was gone, another giant would take its place and it would be comprised and blamed too. Likely one that gave less of a shit than Facebook did.


Worth_Feed9289

Just a mirror showing humanity, it's own reflection.


TheGRS

They took a hard “no involvement” stance for a fairly long amount of time. Citing how they could not scale moderation mostly. If you’re looking for a moralistic argument against Facebook I think that would be the crux: is it morally right to run a successful social platform that largely doesn’t moderate its content? Are they deserving of their scale if it’s not properly moderated? Human capital for moderation is available and can be expensed and quantified, damage to society can’t be quantified in the same way. The argument really is whether you agree with this business practice or not.


Doctor_Jensen117

There's no reason to think that Twitter hasn't had a similar effect on the people that use it though. It's very similar to Facebook. You're kidding yourself if you think Twitter doesn't use the same manipulative strategies. Besides, have you seen the people that use Twitter? They're interactions? They're fucking crazy.


sambarlien

Twitter has 200m users, Facebook has 3 billion. They might be in the same category but FB is in a league of its own.


[deleted]

>social media is just a bad idea with a great business model. If social media is such a bad idea why are you using it right now? :) Blaming FB or TWTR or any other social media for the world's problems is like blaming the paper makers and printing presses for Mein Kampf. Hey, let's just ban the medium, then we won't have to worry about the few idiots who use it!!!


pzerr

Reddit may slant what you read but it has way less hooks to force you to stay out even engage. I could make a new account tomorrow with no real loss. It may have it's negatives but it is no where at the level of Facebook.


Kantz4913

Have you seen Kwai ? it's like tiktok, but with a referral system and they pay you for watch time or something (i have not used it but i've read is like that). Anyway, they pay you to be a zombie and spread the plague of "funny clips". Absolutely terrifying.


Travisx2112

Sounds like an alright way to get paid idly lol


EricClaptonsDeadSon

Unlike Reddit lol


BatmansNygma

Stfu they'll hear you


IAMHideoKojimaAMA

Redditors have extremely high IQ's. We never get news stories or information wrong.


ZomaticLex

It's why we understand Rick and morty


riedmae

Flashback to Boston marathon bombing


brospect

I'd argue it's somewhat different than Facebook. I've always been quite happy that Facebook wasn't a thing before I reached my 20s. It pretty much quanitified popularity. It's not healthy for a 15 year old kid to know how many likes they get on their profile picture or how many "friends" they have compared to everyone else. It's much more personal than reddit is. The misinformation and propaganda is pretty much the same though.


skilliard7

I never viewed Facebook that way at around that age. I was much more self-concious about people downvoting me on Reddit lol


senkichi

It's exactly how I viewed Facebook around that age.


Tomnook1017

When I was 15 and Facebook was first getting big I was so goddam addicted to likes and having a big friend list. It was horrid, I'm glad I basically left all regular social media sites


mazobob66

I'd argue that Facebook is not the problem, but people are the problem. Facebook likes are similar to Reddit upvotes. The content on Facebook is from people you "friended", so it is completely controllable on your part. And you can easily change the settings so that only people who are friends can see what you post. I just hate when the service provider gets blamed for the content that people post. I can understand the provider filtering that content for legal reasons, but not moral or ethical reasons. And unfortunately, this is what people are complaining about most - content that they disagree with.


Wedonotbecomeone

Thanks to everyone who responded to me with their opinion as to why, rather than the reddit hivemind that is too stupid to explain their reasoning, mindlessly and lazily downvoting my harmless question!


whippersnapperguy

What better forum to complain about social media than social media. We are like heroin addicts. We know it's bad but here we are marinating in it.


HoleTrunter

I refuse to touch Nestlé because of their business practices. Most notably the infant formula scandal.


justinface66

Fucknestle


ueberbelichtetesfoto

We have a sub for that: r/fucknestle


HoleTrunter

Go on...


maybenosey

Ironically, Nestle has an ESG rating of AA, which means it's a large component of most socially responsible ETFs.


ShadowLiberal

Because when you try to quantify three different things into numbers it's just garbage in garbage out. A number of automakers have better ESG ratings than Tesla even though they're contributing to climate change with the millions of polluting gas guzzlers they make each year and don't take much more environmentally friendly EVs seriously.


maybenosey

Yes, I was going to go all in on socially responsible ETFs until I realised that Nestle would be one of my biggest investments. While I still don't invest in oil, tobacco, guns, Facebook or Nestle, social responsibility takes a bit of a second fiddle to making money for me, now.


destroyer1134

Couldn't agree more they've approached evil movie corporation status.


keelanstuart

Water is a bigger issue WRT Nestlé.


ResponsibleInvesting

I also believe as you. I'll only invest in life positive securities. It's taken longer to get where I am, but I'm at peace with my investments. Everyone is different in this matter.


jimtow28

I'm somewhat in the middle on this. I invest in tobacco, gambling, and alcohol, but not prisons, Nestle, or MLM. This is an interesting topic, I hadn't really considered where the moral line is with regards to investments. I'm not exactly sure where the line is for me, but I think the difference is predatory practices. People choose to smoke, to gamble, etc, they don't choose to get ripped off by Herbalife.


salfkvoje

> People choose to smoke, to gamble, etc This is an interesting topic though. I've heard it said that quitting smoking is actually harder than quitting heroin. It definitely does something very serious to your brain, rewiring it for smoke to smell good for instance. I quit for about 3 weeks once, and couldn't believe how absolutely rancid smokers smelled, even if it had been quite awhile since they had a smoke. But now (especially if it's been a day without smoking) smelling someone smoke is delicious and makes me want one. And on top of all that, it's so culturally acceptable and available. Less acceptable over time, which I appreciate. Do I choose to smoke? I suppose at the end of the day I do. But it's a more complicated choice than choosing which pasta to make for dinner. I'm not knocking your moral line, I'm enjoying exploring my own. But I'd say at least for me, that profiting off of addiction is a little more sketchy than a simple "people choose to do it."


jimtow28

Oh yeah, I absolutely can see where you're coming from. This is quite an interesting and complicated topic.


no_value_no

I’ve met heroin addicts. I was once a smoker and would not even put the addictions on the same planet.


KlausKimski

I have a similar approach and reasoning. I also added Amazon, Alphabet and Facebook to my black list though.


ireillytoole

I’m curious. Do you avoid their products, as well as avoid investing in them? I finally purged Facebook from my life. Tbh, I would find it so hard, if not damn near impossible, to avoid using any Amazon and google products.


KlausKimski

Both. I left Facebook a long time ago and don't shop on Amazon. It's nearly impossible to avoid Google though. I haven't found another search engine that delivers as good results and ux design, but I'm still looking. A lot of work stuff goes through Google though...


Sweetscienceofcash

As others have said, DuckDuckGo is great


salfkvoje

Amazon is tricky though, because shopping is only part of it. Half the internet is run on AWS, from my understanding, and it's a significant part of their company, I've seen figures showing it's more significant than the shop.


-ZedsDeadBaby-

I heard wolfram is suppose to be the best but there is a cost to it


KlausKimski

>but there is a cost to it Which is?


SeditiousAngels

I've recently been trying to use Ecosia as much as I can. They plant trees in rough/needed places and their engine says "Every search removes 1kg of CO2"


Summebride

"every search removes 1kg of CO2" I'd be very curious about such a statement.


Lewodyn

Then add apple to that list as well


TheGRS

One thing that sold me on Apple was their stance on unlocking phones for the FBI. I found that compelling enough that they held consumer privacy over a fleeting federal investigation.


KlausKimski

Well, Apple makes money buy selling products, not data (as Alphabet and Facebook) and treats its employees better than Amazon. That doesn't imply "great", but definitely "better". And I own a lot of their products, so I would be stupid to now own stocks too. Nobody's perfect I guess...


Derpinator_30

maybe their western employees. iPhone are made in sweat shops by almost basically slave labor in East Asia


TheGRS

Definitely depends on how you orient morality. I see no issues on investing in alcohol with it being a well-known human vice with tons of history, medical documentation, known human disease and equally known societal benefits. And I do believe investing in tobacco is morally wrong for their shielding of medical issues from the public for such a long period of time. At this point the issues are very well known and regulated, but I don’t believe there’s a saving moral argument to investing in the product with its storied history.


doc4science

>People choose to smoke, to gamble, etc, they don't choose to get ripped off by Herbalife See I don't fully agree here. Those companies market in a way where people do not know what they are getting into and once they start it is not a choice. Personally I don't invest in any company that falls under that umbrella.


jimtow28

That's fair. An argument could be made for (or against, I suppose) a lot of the companies I do invest in. Nike has questionable tactics, for example. It's interesting to me how and where people draw their own lines.


doc4science

I agree it’s very interesting. Personally I see companies like Nike who have questionable tactics as different from those in the gambling and tobacco industries since no one can get addicted to shoes and if the customer cared about their policies they could stop buying the product, that’s not so easy with gambling or tobacco.


jimtow28

> no one can get addicted to shoes A pretty convincing argument could be made that you can indeed be addicted to shoes. Just ask my wife! (I'm kidding...mostly) Part of the reason I am invested there is because of the way people line up to pay whatever the price is for the newest pair of shoes. Even when folks were mad at them about the whole Kaepernick thing, they just kept right on selling out. But I I do understand the differentiation you're pointing to. Some people will spend their last dime for a pack of smokes, they probably won't do that for a new pair of Jordans.


cranialrectumongus

Making money is the whole goal for me. The reason I have not many moral aversions to what a company does is because of what I do with the money I make. I donate almost all the gains I make in the market to the poor and sick. The more I make the more I donate. If you ever want to know what it's like to be a super hero, give someone in desperate need, some life changing amount of money. It literally feels so good I almost feel selfish for doing it. Almost. Also, I don't personally believe in keeping inheritance. All that money will be given to those I feel who would best benefit from it. Again, more super hero feelings for me.


Zeroharbinger

Name checks out. And same.


FeCard

I made 5000% on Zoom puts that I only bought because I hate the company I also won't buy Facebook or Twitter or Walmart because I hate them


northbound1891

I guess that's one way of investing that works for me too. I've made a bit of money on Snapchat puts.


FeCard

Those are great after earnings


kothhammer12

What's wrong with zoom? I thought about buying the stock but it seems too volatile. I don't know of anything morally wrong with them. ​ I also wouldn't buy Facebook but I'm on the fence with Walmart. I feel similar about Amazon. I'd rather see their businesses decline than grow so I don't invest in them but I feel like that could change.


FeCard

I associate them with ruining my last year of college. Kind of irrational I know


proverbialbunny

They lie is my \#1, because it's a butterfly effect into all of these other things. Eg, they had security scandal after security scandal and instead of patching it immediately they lied to the public about it. They have ties to the Chinese government and are paid to collect data on you, but mostly they target certain businesses. Eg Apple had a problem with them and had to switch. Then there is the fact that their software was or still is a rootkit, which doesn't help things either. So I guess when I say lie, I mean they do all sorts of nasty shady things that are pretty horrible. Also fwiw, I made a bit shorting zoom too. I got laughed at on Reddit an hour to the top, so I decided to short it more. Thanks! LOL


kothhammer12

Thanks, I knew none of that. Glad I didn't invest in it!


aVarangian

> I don't know of anything morally wrong with them. Chinese. You have no idea what the CCP does with whatever data they collect. And Zoom has taken down sessions of Hong Kongers because the CCP is a butthurt hitleroid.


LOVEGOD77

You can find dirt in almost (if not every) Fortune 500 company if you dig deep enough.


Nice-Violinist-6395

Yeah, but to me there’s a huge difference between the “regular evil” of most corporations, and investing in something like a private prison. I will never, ever invest in a private prison.


chickenoutdoorblends

Found a private prison paying 14% dividends but I can't invest in a company like that. I did however invest in Bti even though that might also be questionable


DoctorProfessor69

What's the ticker for that prison company?


Bte0815

Yeah, I have the stomach for this.


notapersonaltrainer

Some folks are in this thread for the investment ideas.


wiglywam

Yea that's the thing. I just quick went through all the sectors of SP500, and there is not a single sector without several bad apples in terms of their negative externalities on society (pollution, health, price gouging, monopoly behavior, unethical management, scandals, employee treatment). I try to not actively invest in companies I don't like, but I just accept that I usually am invested somehow by a passive index. I can't seem to avoid twitter, for example. There are ESG funds, but I do have an internal debate, whether at this point in time oil companies are worse than social media companies in terms of net harm.


PM_ME_GARFIELD_NUDES

They’re also all interconnected. You can be as opposed to GenericShittyCompany as you want, but your money in SlightlyLessShittyCompany will end up circulating to them anyway.


timshel_life

That's why I just don't research companies before buying, plausible deniability.


opentraderx

Yes, I'm not going to be trading robinhood.


mdcortright

Came here to say this. Especially after hearing about the kid who took his life from a lack of their customer support.


opentraderx

You said it best. Most articles blame his lack of understanding but if he reached out to them to try and understand why he all of a sudden owes 500k and couldn't get through then I now blame them too.


mdcortright

To get access to options trading on Robinhood all you have to do is click a few buttons. The blame should be on them because there are no failsafes. Most people don’t realize how options actually work in general so they need to ask themselves why is it so easy for kids to be able to get access to that leverage. Plus it’s sickening that people just can’t admit that it’s ridiculous that he didn’t get a response for 3 days I believe. You can’t even call them apparently.


dankmaymayreview

I agree that they fucked up with customer service, but if you gamble with things you dont understand (options), how is that anyone’s fault but your own? Thats like blaming gamestop if you bought at the all time high.


SuperDuperRipe

3 days? I was not aware of that. Had 3 days to save a life!?


SpartanDawg420

Yes RH pulled the trigger…


nobeardjim

I would short it but I am afraid to.


bpi89

Bear trap. Mind it no attention. Just ignore.


bagelwhore_x0

\*I didn't read the whole post\* But to answer the question in the title, YES. I will not trade JNJ and HAL, disgusting morally corrupt companies run by awful people. Are there a million publicly traded companies like them? probably. But given the knowledge I have of their history I just won't bring myself to do it.


Dionysyn

Please explain more, so i know why to avoid them!


Astronautswag

Halliburton has deep ties to VP Dick back in the day. One could argue they were a key driver of the forever wars we are trapped in now. J&J is... bad overall for people. It's a great investment, it has a credit rating superior to that of the US government. But, they also kinda gave a ton of people asbestos-tainted baby powder, the whole opioid epidemic, the vaginal mesh implants, the use of the Red Cross branding for self-promote, illegally marketing Risperdal, multiple foreign bribery charges, many consumer fraud settlements.


bagelwhore_x0

Just to add to this. Haliburton female employees in Middle Eastern countries were often assaulted on the job in awful ways and Haliburton violated the employment contract when they decided they were not at all responsible for putting them in unsafe situations. It's hard to explain completely because it would violate Reddit policy but you can read about it. Edit to add: Halliburton was also the ones responsible for the massive explosion and oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, but BP got all the blame. HAL destroyed all the proof that it was them who caused the disaster. JNJ has knowingly poisoned millions of people for decades with their products. Every once in a while they get a small fine(relative to the amount of money they make) they pay the fine, they pay off the consumers that were affected. And it's business as usual.


starlordbg

And you wonder why people don't trust the vaccines.


bagelwhore_x0

I don’t wonder lol but seems the rest of the country does.


starlordbg

Not you specifically, but I am really curious on why people suddenly trust the government and the medical companies. Especially in certain communities here you would get down voted into oblivion if you dare to doubt that government and companies have anything but your well being in mind.


1Greener

For me I don’t invest in gambling companies, although I see online gambling a decent investment. As a former gambling addict I just don’t agree with the owners making millions from ruining poor working class lives.


GSCToMadeira

I gamble occasionally on sports events because that makes the event more exciting for me. Been doing it for years. Never gambled more than small amounts, for me it's never been a negative thing. But i know it can be addicting and life ruining for other people. I see it exactly like alcohol, completely fine for people who drink occasionally or in moderation but can absolutely ruin another person's life. This is a tough one for me, i don't think it should be banned but at the same time it probably needs stricter regulation and that can only happen through proper companies. If you were to ban it people would just use shady ilegal bookies and that would be far worse.


[deleted]

> Former gambling addict I'd have to see your stock portfolio to see whether you're a former addict or just found a new way to gamble


1Greener

All in amc


Niceguy_Anakin

So still a gambling addict, just in another ball game?


kirbalicious72

I agree for the most part, but I have invested in draft kings, as I absolutely love fantasy football. Do you put them in the same boat as igaming?


philbert247

I hate casinos bro. They advertise everywhere, attract the scummiest people, and thrive on greed. Fuck those places.


Grand_Ad_7440

And its unbelievably easy to get sucked into it I was sucked into online gambling through blackjack on my phone when I first turned 18, luckily I was broke and only lost about 100 but I lost that 100 in 15 minutes It literally eats your money while sending you flashy colours and noses and giving you the incentive to come back with "free spins every day" which if you read the fine print only give you the chance to win a couple of euros at the very most. So fucking shady


johndicks80

I also have an addictive personality. I gamble on the app. Gamble by making my whole account $DKNG. Then gamble by making derivatives plays with $DKNG. They now have live dealers that work seamlessly. They are also partnering with sports and social to make a Draftkings branded high end bar. Literally the opposite of gamblers anonymous. However, my FIL is a gambling addict so I won’t even show him the app.


Edibleglass69420

To some degree yes, I won’t invest in Facebook. I won’t invest in oil companies as I feel thats the wrong direction for the world so I take my little tiny vote and cast it to the EV industry. I do have a good size position in Draftkings mainly because I see it as a similar argument as the casinos or the argument to legalize weed. People are going to gamble no matter what, why not give them a safe and regulated space to do it. As opposed to having Tommy two face show up at your door and break your knees because you can’t pay your dept


ResaleNoobie

I'm anti Robinhood


spazemonkey420

You mean Robbinghood?


nikita_dx

Everyone here is anti HOOD


mithyyyy

The hate-boner is pretty hilarious


LewisB89

Facebook. I don’t give a shit how well the stock has been performing over the past however many years, they’ll never be in my portfolio. Zuckerberg is the epitome of morally abhorrent, all he cares about is getting as much of our information as possible at any cost to sell for a profit to whoever is willing to pay. Couldn’t care less about people. Social media is destructive on us as a society, and he’s at the top of that totem pole. To be honest, I’ll never invest in any of the social media companies. It’s a massive shame that the majority of retirement funds have Facebook in their portfolios so they’ll be a part of that but what can I do about that.


Ehralur

I believe in Gali from Hyperchange's motto: invest in the future you believe in. There are plenty of stocks that'll make you a shit ton of money, you don't need to invest in tobacco, oil, weapons, prisons, FB, etc.


LilyBriscoeBot

I agree. Plus if I do end up losing money, it's slightly less painful if I'm rooting for the company and believe in their mission/product.


static-prince

Yeah. That is definitely a thing I am trying to do.


MstClvrUsrnm

Rule of thumb: Never talk morality on a financial sub. Some people turn into sociopaths real quick if there is money to be made, and the evil is easy enough to ignore.


Tutenioo

This even happens in games with virtual currency trading like fifa ultimate team. If a player dies or has some serious accident, some people will buy that card and price fix it to max price. I am always in disbelief when i see people doing it.


BNS972

When Maradona died, his FUT tifo and the Argentina NT jersey both were going for crazy prices


612k

Literally every single highly upvoted post is agreeing with OP lol.


salfkvoje

You also have to consider, who is going to show up in this thread like "Yeah for me it's Nestle bro"


[deleted]

I mean I think the Fed and central banks hurt poor people way more than these companies. Its not blackrock setting interest rates to 0% for almost 20 years and printing millions of dollars to inflate asset prices, they're just taking advantage of it. The first news I heard about them buying up real estate I bought stock in Blackrock, in the caste system the government is creating its better to be a lord than a serf.


MrNugget6

I’m practically an arms dealer myself.


80percentofme

Everyone saying they invest “morally” should list their holdings.


monkeyman88956

And if includes index funds, I'm going to assume they are hypocrites.


stingraycharles

You’re being downvoted but it’s a good point. Index funds typically don’t discriminate against specific stocks, and most definitely will include Nestle, Facebook and the other usual suspects.


80percentofme

Exactly.


Bobert25467

Yeah i don't invest in companies that support the censorship and human rights violations in China like Apple and Disney.


efrost55

You can add Google and Facebook to that!


ShadowLiberal

I remember when Google left China years ago for moral reasons because they were sick of enforcing their censorship laws. Then management changed their mind and got back in years later over the protests of a bunch of their employees. Google used to be a much more moral company, but not anymore.


crazycoconut247

Yes I take my personal feelings and beliefs into account. I would never support certain companies. Nothing wrong there.


marv90

We have the same thread today already. [What companies no matter how good of an investment they’re that you absolutely refuse to invest with?](https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/ouvysd/what_companies_no_matter_how_good_of_an/)


Timo_TMK

I hate the countless people here that don’t mind investing in the companies you mentioned but are utterly offended by Cathie Wood buying HOOD at its IPO because of its “shady practices”. Ridiculous


Grand_Ad_7440

Its because they're directly affected Lockheed Martin making hellfire missiles that are used to blow up schools and hospitals doesnt mean shit to them Robinhood restricting buying gamestop (like almost every other broker at the time) is worse than hitler


DeBigBamboo

The deeper you dive the more you realize that they are all evil. The most moral route you could take is to invest in nothing.


Lewodyn

Wrong way of thinking. World is not black and white. Some companies are way more 'evil' than others. So invest in the companies that are at the good side of the scale. If we all do this, then companies will have to improve or not get any capital.


Grand_Ad_7440

I try and have the same approach as the Norway investment fund They don't invest in any company that they deem unethical, they even banned walmart from the fund because of humans rights abuses which I found amazing because so many ignore walmarts shocking treatment of workers Granted they lifted the ban but still it showed that even big known brands can be unethical


KokoroMain1475485695

Funny you mention that because they have invested in oil massively.


Bullyhunter8463

Well, Norway's wealth is largely built on oil money so that's not really surprising.


HarveyFloodee

So where do you draw the line? What about those companies that enable the companies you don’t invest in? Like the equipment companies like Caterpillar that supply diamond mines with machinery? Or the logistics companies that truck around all the Herbalife product to people’s doorstep?


JRshoe1997

Yeah they are all connected in some way and none of them are clean and thats just the reality of it. Even his Norway Trust Fund that he deems “ethical” is invested in oil which he deems “unethical”.


Azurnoob

It also bought lots of residential and commercial property in London, from which the tax receipts subsidise the UK’s defence industry and arm the war in Yemen . If you look far enough everything can be tied to something shady.


mirinfashion

I don't get it, you bring up Norway's fund and try to model them, yet as others have mentioned, they were pretty much built on oil money, something you state you wouldn't invest in. If you were indeed a "very moral person," you wouldn't invest in anything. > Granted they lifted the ban but still it showed that even big known brands can be unethical So why did they lift the Walmart ban? $$$? As for me, I'm not going to bother trying to jump through hoops, make x,y,z requirements to pick the lesser of evils when they all have a role in whatever immoral things you may find.


Rookwood

Attempting to be moral in an immoral society is martyrdom and a fool's errand. You will change nothing by sacrificing yourself by not participating and someone else will gladly take your spot. It's irrational.


Nonrenormalizable1

You are completely right if only a few do it. To make a change, we must all agree to do, which can be difficult task, and I think talking about it is the first step


Scullyx

Wont invest in China, morally disgusting in every way. Like investing in Nazi Germany


sweetnessyo2

Imagine refusing to invest in oil when every aspect of your life is possible because of oil.


thorium43

I don't invest in it just because I think its already peaked and wind and solar are going to become dominant next 10 years. Plastics are a minor amount of the revenue of oil companies compared to combustion.


sweetnessyo2

I agree.


monkeyman88956

It's true. I don't think people realize how many products are derived from oil and gas. Gasoline, jet fuel, and lubrication are what comes to mind for most people. People also think about electricity. But there are way more. Plastics (including basically anything with poly in the name), rubbers, a ton of alloys. Other uses include heating, cooking, transportation, building products, poly fabrics, food storage. If you wear yoga pants or other stretchy exercise fabrics, you are supporting oil industry.


stevejam89

If you don’t invest in oil for “moral obligations”, then to be morally consistent you should not purchase or use anything made from or packaged with the majority of plastics. Everything from a plastic water bottle, to a car. And even refraining from saying yes to the plastic bag at the grocery store. However yes I understand. I don’t like AMZN or WMT for their labour practices.


pdh565

just curious if you ever consider the amount of lives that are saved or prolonged because of oil companies? say someone mortally injures themselves hundreds of miles from a level I trauma center. thanks to relatively cheap fuel, we live in a country where we can transport that person via helicopter to a regional trauma center. maybe this is an extreme but you could make the case for a lot of similar situations. or monsanto (now part of bayer). how many lives have they saved worldwide due to advancements in corn and soy yield?


static-prince

Yeah. These situations are definitely complicated. I agree. We all kind of have to make those trade offs. I totally see where you’re coming from. (Something something ethical consumption something something capitalism.) I do try to weigh those when considering if a company is morally right to invest in. But I also don’t do huge investments. So I feel a little less bad…


notapersonaltrainer

Most woke investing is shallow uninformed virtue signaling. Investing in oil doesn't magically make people use more oil. People use oil because their lives depend on it. It's sustained more life than any questionably "climate induced hurricanes" have or will negate. Virtually all food, transportation, building, work, medical devices, etc. Climate deaths have dropped [precipitously](https://fee.org/media/34464/lomborg-global-deaths-from-climate-and-non-climate-catastrophes-1920-2018-figure-3a-_900w.png?width=600&height=557.0175438596491) and if you do a root cause analysis much of it probably involves oil. Even with smoking the science says smoking increases your absolute risk of lung cancer by 2.6%. While not nothing it's also overblown. We'd probably be better off boycotting most processed food companies. Chronic disease has been exploding and has little to do with smoking. Monsanto type companies have probably fed more people than all the world's charities combined, etc.


spartan1008

Nestle and Apple. I understand companies often get involved with human trafficking and slavery, but as far as I know these are the only two who toute it at share holder meetings as a way to add value and save share holders money. Slavery is every where, and most multinationals are involved somehow, but these two actively seek out those markets for manufacturing and labor.


Decent_Coach_1291

I go wherever there is money to be made. No emotions in investing..


spazemonkey420

you mean no ethics?


Nonrenormalizable1

Ethics and emotions are not the same thing, but it's a common mistake some ethics are based in human emotions


MindMugging

I have a moral obligation to strictly avoid poorly governed companies. Losing Money to poor management is so immoral.


YoonCat

Don’t invest in Black rock


pissed_ai

What the fuck is this recent trend of validation seeking posts? I see those every day. It isn't educational to anybody and literally nobody cares what your moral rules of trading are.


moneybukkake

Gtfo with this woke bs...have fun missing out on gains


Heerst

Uber and other 'gig economy worker exploitation' type companies.


[deleted]

My only moral obligation, which is what I'm gunning for after I graduate with my finance degree, is "green" investing. Allocating capital to firms that specialize in renewable energy and management. Think both this and Fintech have perfect opportunities to grow at an exponential rate.


OhMyGoodnessThatBoy

XOM. Their aggressive destruction of the environment and the incredible lengths they’ve gone through to cover up climate change science.


trickle_rick

i cant think of many investments that arent immoral on some level


SilkyThighs

Don’t care what I invest in. If it’ll make me money I’m buying the shares.


delectablehermit

No, im in it to make money, just like they are. If their consumers are willing to buy their product. I'm willing to trade it. -signed a previous tobacco smoker.