I haven't had a raise in four years and haven't had a cost of living increase in two years.
By - user1957
I am of the opinion that you should always be “stress-testing” your value. Look what else is out there. If you don’t look, you’ll never know your true value. I was recently at a company that valued me for $30k less than I make now for essentially the same work. If you think you’re worth more, prove it.
To be honest even if you do get a raise within your company its, what, 3%? 5% at a stretch? Ive spent the last 10 years essentially doing my 2 - 2.5 years time at a company and then moving on for this exact reason. In 2015 I was on $37k a year and im on $100k now. Maybe Im super cynical but unless theres another reason you would stay in a company (like my current role) where there is a really clear path to a leadership role or a clear advancement opportunity, IMO you're better off jumping ship while you're 'climbing'
I used to be all about "loyalty" until the last few years. In 2019 my base salary at my old job was $48.5k, after we merged I learned my counterpart was making $65k+ and had less experience than me. I asked for a raise, didn't get it, so I left. My base comp in 2020 grew to $72.5k and my bonus was 3x larger.
The sick part of it is I have half the responsibility now, my new job is substantially easier.
My personal belief is loyalty is a luxury. They have to pay you enough and treat you well enough that you can *afford* to be loyal
Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most.
Did the same. Took a $25K increase, and really, a $50k increase, since it’s straight salary - no hoops to jump through for commissions. Hard to judge the workload since I’ve got some new responsibilities - but no more direct reports. Yay!
14 years in the industry for me and the longest I've stayed in one place is 4 years. They then "promoted" me, which included a pay cut.
I declined the promotion and found another job with a 25% pay rise.
Idk, I just got a 24% total comp increase last year. Step 1. Work for a growing company. Step 2. Prove your worth and grow that company.
Doesn't work so well in every industry, bit it's possible to do well from within.
Went from a $300m to $2b company in the decade I worked there. Largest I ever got was 5%
To go from 37k to 100k you'd need a 24% raise _every year_ for like 5 years
Largest increases come when changing jobs, so you really just need to change jobs every 2 years or so.
Studies have shown that to maximise wage growth you should move every 2 years, which from an employers productivity perspective is crazy because it takes people over a year to get really good at a new job. But it is just the way of the world I guess not much really makes sense when you analyse it.
Yep - it takes a tremendous amount of resources to hire, train, and maintain productive employees. I'll never understand why after 2 years companies don't start giving bonuses or base increases based on potential replacement costs.
And we're full circle back to the comment where they climbed from 37 to 100 by doing exactly this
Also, a lot of companies will give you higher raises if you have a competing offer, so even if you don't want to leave it pays off to look for alternatives. I mean, how else do you know how much the market is willing to pay you?
They'll give you that until they find the next guy that they're now looking for.
They wanna keep you happy until you can be replaced and then they'll pull out the rug and you won't have that raise or a different job.
Came to say this....if you've got a better offer take it and leave....they'll find your replacement once they know you "aren't loyal"
This is not universal and varies wildly - depends on the management. If you look out for you while being professional and communicative, you set that up to succeed. Some managers - especially smaller companies with no HR specialists in compensation -truly don't know job values.
And if they do pull the rug out, you're already set up to bounce back if you're looking out for you in a professional, communicative way.
That's mostly untrue. However, as an employee if you're happy you usually aren't looking. If you take a "stay offer" odds are that you're out the door in 6 months, anyway. Cost to source, sever and replace is really expensive, not to mention the tribal knowledge lost with cutting ties. In many instances, it's cheaper to give you the increase.
This is why companies should be doing market adjustments every other year or so, not cost of living adjustments. Pay to the market and keep people happy then you won't have turnover issues.
> To be honest even if you do get a raise within your company its, what, 3%? 5% at a stretch?
I just got a 70% raise at my company. I proved my value and then asked for more compensation
Well you are in the minority by far
What industry are y'all in where you get these massive salary increases for switching jobs?
Im in the advertising industry, Im a project manager. Im pretty aggressive with my career advancement and I guess I market myself well. I also just think you dont get what you dont ask for - Im pretty ballsy with the jobs that I go for.
Depends on the company. I've been with my company for 7.5 years. Except for one year, where I didn't get a raise, I've typically gotten 4-5%. At the start of 2021 I got a 17% raise, due to how well I did in my position in 2020. I also have a 5 minute commute to work, so I don't see myself looking for a new job unless I have to right now.
How does that work? I mean, in your country your next employer is required by law to give you equal or more to your previous pay or its common practice in your field of work or you're that good at negotiating pay?
While you’re still at your current start job, start organising interviews. When they ask your salary range, say one that is higher than your current one. Only accept roles that pay more than your current one. Profit.
This. I never accepted\* a role that was equal or less pay to my previous role. Generally I dont accept less than 10k higher.
Edit to change to past tense.
Yeah totally, I worded that wrong, I meant thats what Ive done over the last 10 years or so when my focus has been my income. Obviously I dont know what the future will hold, but in the conversation about "how did you always get payed more at the next job" the answer is, I didnt accept jobs at equal or lesser pay.
I guess it's the latter but I dont feel like I do anything special. Companies have money, my time is worth money, and people constantly under value themselves. I always sell myself slightly over what I think Im worth and it consistently lands. I work in advertising so Im probably fairly good at marketing myself and my skillset.
>How does that work? I mean, in your country your next employer is required by law to give you equal or more to your previous pay
Lol what? That may be a law in imaginationland...
You don't need to be a wizard at negotiating to only accept higher paying jobs, but you do need to apply and interview for them....
It helps if you have valuable skills or are in a demanded field. If all you've ever done is run the cash register at a grocery store or clean toilets, you'll have a harder time with this than, say an electrician or a data analyst.
I did the same. I got an $18,000 raise just for keeping my eyes and ears open and testing the job market. Totally worth it. The new position has promotion potential as well.
Ditto- jumped to a new job with starting comp double of what I previously made but slightly longer hours (10-15 hours a week more), but stress is through the roof. I’d heavily consider a job that paid a little less but gave me my life back.
This is great thank you! I will take a look and see what I find.
Plus when you’ve been there for so long they don’t think they need to give you a raise because they don’t think you’re going anywhere. Prove them otherwise and they might convince you to stay with a raise or promotion.
I was recently in this boat, previous employer offered me a EoY promotion that was under market. They thought I wouldn't jump ship and deal with all the added stress of a new company.
I had already been searching and in my 4th round interview for the same promotion at a competing firm. I gave notice the following week and CFO offered to match. When I said the opportunity was too good to pass up they told they can go higher; gave me a number that was 10k higher than my new offer (net 45k from their initial). It actually enraged me tbh.
Last I heard they hired externally and two people who also wanted the promotion left.
You can use an internal bump to negotiate with whomever you’re interviewing with. Was working for company A when company B was writing an offer. Company A gave me a raise and promotion. So I went back to company B and said this is my new rate, plus $X to make up for the difference in paid leave. Got my new rate plus $X.
Good advice. To add onto this just be wary of using another offer to leverage a better one at your current place. Once you go down that road you have to be prepared to leave.
If the company you are at currently working for won’t give you any raises or other increases because you’ve been there for x number of years. But suddenly want to give you a big raise when you find a new job willing to pay you what you’re worth. You should promptly (politely) tell them to go fuck themselves. Here’s a fun analogy. If you’re in a relationship and being abused by your partner you would hate that and would leave(at least most people would), then when you leave because you stop believing the BS lies that you are worthless, they get hurt and try to win you back by groveling and telling you they’ll be better and you are so important to them. The problem is, that’s a lie too. Things will just go right back to the way they were before. So leave that abusive relationship and find someone who will appreciate you! Don’t look back!
I left a company, went back a year later for 25% raise.
Just left again, now they want me to contract for +140% on top of that.
Which tells you, the money was already there. Ask for it, go find it.
This is a bit of nuance but having a contractor there for 2.4x the rate is often something any hiring manager could accomplish - while only the COO could create a special req designed just for you with another 50% raise internally.
The internal route (creating a new position just for you) is riddled with politics. You can get the COO's buy off but IT objects because they also have a special associate who needs something; EVP of IT has inroads with the EVP of HR, and your special req simply gets downgraded on its way into the system. All so they can veto the process and get a meeting with the COO to explain how you're violating company policy or something. (Something much like this happened to a req I spent six months getting approvals for)
Contractors are planned differently. There's much more flexibility writing the requirements and comp.
What I'm describing is common across very large companies.
So you're right, the money is there. But as an employee - your leadership didn't have access to that money.
Great way to think about it. I hadn’t thought of it that way before. Plus, contractors cost much less than their face value. It may be +140% comparing hourly rate to base salary, but not comparing base salary + benefits + retirement matching etc to contractor rate - 7.75% employment tax difference - no benefits - no pto etc. might only be +50%
Yeah this exactly. The benefits loss is typically very significant. And contracting jobs are generally temporary, with the onus of finding future work on the person being contracted. Which can be a big risk depending on industry.
If the door doesn't squeak, it won't get oiled.
Don't burn bridges though! Be sure to put in at least a two weeks notice.
Also, be prepared for your company's reaction. Some companies may let you go the day you announce your intention to find a new job, others may try to get you to stay by gaslighting or making you a better offer.
Be ready for anything, and good luck OP!
Prooooo tip, if a company ever asks you to leave before your two week date after you have given it already: Politely collect all your things, and leave as soon as possible.
My GF currently quit her job to leave for a new one. Her employers were petty and told her that her last day would be 4 days before her scheduled last day.
I told her to file for unemployment, technically they fired her and she didn’t get to work out her schedule.
I honestly thought it was a shot in the dark and they would say no... Unemployment went and did a full investigation and sided with my GF.
She had a 5 week period between leaving that job and starting her new one. She was paid for everyone of the weeks she didn’t work.
If the company just let her finish her week out, she wouldn’t have gotten anything.
Did they stop paying her 4 days early? I've heard of people putting in 2 weeks, being asked to leave early, and still receiving pay for that time. I think that's common when you're working for a company similar to the one you're leaving and not sure that would count for unemployment.
I work in the tech industry in CA and it’s very common when you put in your notice for them to pay you out for your notice and you can leave with no issues. Their mindset is they don’t want you stealing data or doing trash work for those X amount of weeks.
Here's my 7 month notice guys!
Anyway, you can just drop that buyout check in the same account you have on file for my direct deposit.
“Yeah imma go ahead and give my 5 year notice. It’s been real.”
If someone was going to do anything like that, the smart ones would do all that first.
They asked her not to come in for her last 4 days and did no offer to pay her for it.
My husband had a similar experience. It ended up being a wrongful dismissal that earned him 4 weeks pay and the ability to collect unemployment benefits before the new job started. We were pleased as punch
This. Play nice, but know they may not. Especially if your job entails company inventory or equipment.
I also had a landlord counteroffer me lower rent once when we informed of departure. Arg. You can negotiate rent?!
Good tenants are very hard to come by.
My landlord did the same thing when my lease was up and told him I found a cheaper place.
He matched the offer to keep me. Said he would rather have someone he knew paid on time and wouldn’t ruin his place rather then take a chance on a new tenant.
Yeah it’s kind of a two way street. Great landlords don’t want to lose great tenants and great tenants don’t want to lose great landlords
As someone who has the worst fucking landlords currently, you nailed it.
The next thirty days can’t go fast enough.
I got a 25k counter offer, took it for 3 years then moved elsewhere for a better culture.
If your current company beats an offer from a potential employer, use your current company's counter offer to negotiate with the potential employer.
Also, keep looking for another job, at least for a few more weeks anyway. You may still be able to do better elsewhere using your new salary in negotiations, or at least go somewhere where your current salary is closer to the floor than ceiling of potential pay for the respective companies.
No I will always work a notice!
Now is a great time. Lots of companies hiring, and a lot of people dragging their feet to go back to work
Another piece of advice is to find ways to make sure your manager knows that you want more responsibility/promotion/pay. If they’re worth their salt they will take steps to groom you for growth. If they don’t respond then it makes it that much easier to leave
I once asked at an annual review what i needed to get to the next level (ie promoted) and was told just keep doing what you've been doing...like yeah, thats not helpful. And if what im doing deserves a raise why not give it now?
Yeah the “keep doing what you’re doing” trap. It’s a sign of a manager that is not invested in your growth
Or one who isn’t sure what to say when they believe there is no chance for growth from that position within that organization.
(I’ve been that guy).
> Another piece of advice is to find ways to make sure your manager knows that you want more responsibility/promotion/pay
This is something I will never do. I want none of those things. I've been a Software Developer 1 for over five years. I have no interest in the higher responsibility of level 2, so I will always forgo the higher salary to avoid it. Ideally I'm level 1 until retirement 13 years from now.
You're not alone. Sometimes the extra pay isn't worth the additional headache. I saw what my supervisors have to go through at my last gig and it don't seem worth it, you know? Calls at 2AM, constant client pressure, subordinate interpersonal conflicts, and everybody's contacting *you* to handle it! Don't get me wrong, I know that no easy job pays well, but I'd need an exorbitant salary to deal with that and more issues that I'm not even aware of, personally.
I'm a Sr. Engineer, the next level is a Lead Engineer. which is actually a Team Lead.
I couldn't say 'no' fast enough.
this! after an abysmal (read: none) raise this year I interviewed an accepted a position that gave me a 30-40k annual raise (depending on bonuses). Always do a stress test every 2 years or so! Man, especially with so many jobs being remote these days, you don't have to be limited to the 'small town' you live in.
The only way to get a truly noticeable raise is to change jobs. I’ve worked for 2-3 years at companies to receive no pay raises or, a 3-5% raise at best. Even with a 5% raise, COL in my area was rising so rapidly at the time along with health insurance premiums, the raise barely made a difference at all.
I just recently started a job search after I was fed up with my employer piling more work on my team (huge workload increases) with absolutely no increase in compensation (after bragging about record sales and account growth). I spent a day researching resume advice and fine-tuning that. Within a couple weeks, I had a job offer and a $15,000 salary increase.
If you’re not receiving annual raises that at least keep up with COL increases, you’re essentially taking a pay cut each year. It’s always worth it to keep your resume updated and see what’s out there.
I was never of this opinion until recently when I finally came to the realization that I am expendable as a worker. I recently found my way into a new industry with much higher pay and opportunity for advancement.
I've been in my current role for 3 months and I have companies and recruiters contacting me about positions for $20-30k more than I'm making right now. I'm going to put at least 6 months into this role, but after that I'm looking elsewhere.
Great point about stress-testing your value!
I've been looking, but in my case, any job I find doesn't pay my tuition up front like my current one does, which is kind of necessary for me if I ever want to finish my degree. So I'm often torn between just jumping ship to a higher paying career, or staying in my current job and trying to finish my degree.
Not all compensation is salary. Staying put to take advantage of a good tuition reimbursement program is a tangible benefit that you shouldn't have to feel bad about when comparing to a job with better pay but worse benefits.
Especially when it's something so easy to convert to monetary value.
Read the fine print though, I had tuition reimbursement and stayed an extra year to keep it and when I left they said oh the policy is actually 2 years now because it was a *special* program and I got nothing.
Or even just for the purposes of managing stress or work life balance. I don't love my job but I don't hate it. It's not far from my place, the work isn't hard, and I'm only rarely asked to stay late. I'd much rather make what I make now than get a ten percent raise but double or triple my commute in the process and have to work overtime in a high stress job.
This is a math problem. Is new salary - old salary > tuition reimbursement? If so, it's a better salary. If not, then not.
There are other things to consider as well, like how flexible they'll be with classes and school work. But as far as the pure dollar amount is concerned, tuition reimbursement is just another name for money they give you.
True. I suppose part of my issue is the classes are paid for up front, as opposed to being reimbursed, which, even if I were to get a significant pay bump, would delay my classes even more while I set aside money for said classes.
This. There are plenty of online estimates of what your skills are worth on the market, but most are really just ballpark figures. i.e. +/-10% at best although I have seen some that underestimated what multiple orgs have given me offers for by >25%.
This right here.
ABL: Always Be Looking. Look for jobs, do interviews, keep those skills honed. Like /u/Sjf715 says - you'll never know if you never try.
How do you do this?
So much this. it's like selling your car, if you only have one offer you don't really know what the market value is
Studies show ppl who change jobs every 2 years earn significantly more than their peers. Sounds silly but it’s true.
[article about it. ](https://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employees-that-stay-in-companies-longer-than-2-years-get-paid-50-less/)
I had never Really given it much conscious thought, but I can definitely follow the logic. Thanks 👍🏼
I’ve seen it first hand at my company. Guy worked for us for years, quit for another company and got a pay increase, came back to our company a year later with another pay increase. Doing the same exact work for 20% more.
I never knew about the study, but this has worked for me as well. I’ve switched every 2 years for the last 6 years and went from 52k to 60k to 80k for similar work...some companies just pay better and there’s no harm to submit a few applications for higher paying positions (they won’t contact your current employer until after an initial interview, allowing you to explain the situation)
Isn't it also that people who change jobs are simply better at what they do, and therefore have more options, and by default more demand for the skills they offer?
So in what direction does causality move here, if it's not mere correlation?
It’s the Geico paradox. People who change save on average 15%. But that doesn’t mean all people who check how much they would save average that much. People who don’t save anything won’t switch, and therefore don’t count toward the metric.
I posit it’s more likely that 15% is the average amount to motivate someone to switch, no matter the volume of people looking. This also means all companies average savings of around 15% when switching.
Not necessarily. I think it's more about maintaining active negotiation for your pay and using your current pay to negotiate for more at the new place
I think so. I’ve been where I’m at now for 4 years. And I’ve been applying for jobs, talking to recruiters and going on interviews for other positions for…4 years. Haha. Nothing better has come up that checks all the boxes that my current company does. But when it does me and the owner will have a discussion. Lol. It’s not that I dislike my job or my company, I just dislike work as a whole. So if I’m gonna do it, may as well get paid the most.
I’m having this conversation with my boss all the time. We’re both underpaid and looking for work, but if they just paid us both more, we’d both probably stay. Thing is, if we both left, they’d be pretty screwed as we have such oddball jobs it’d take quite a while to get someone up to speed. I like my company a lot, but if they don’t pay up soon, we’ll both be gone. Work is entirely transactional and we all need to stop looking at it any other way.
100% agree. We are NOT a family here. They are at home and are my #1 priority. My Venn diagram of a good job is; pay me enough money to live how I want AND enough time off to enjoy my life.
and skew toward high paying fields like IT and engineering.
Maybe I’m not getting what you’re saying but I think that the “people” who are changing jobs are doing so for better pay. Not just randomly changing jobs. I think the point is that you are more likely to be valued at a new company than your own. A 1% raise in pay vs a 10-20% at a new company.
It's pretty much impossible to tell without an experiment to test it.
Granted it’s anecdotal but I’ve seen it first hand. Friends have changed company’s doing the same work and have gotten pay increase every time.
This does not work in my profession at all (dentistry) or medicine. Even in corporatized environments, flakey docs look like trouble. You can’t stay at a job for more than 2 years, probably dodging suits/complaints or there’s an issue with substance abuse or sexual harassment.
It's somewhat the same in my field (biomedical lab tech), although the reason is "why spend resources on training someone that will just leave in two years, before they are even fully trained".
Edit: also, I'm not from the US, so general workculture could be much different.
There is a difference between getting let go and looking for another job
If you’re constantly looking for new jobs as a doctor or even a non-doc, that’s a red flag.
I would agree if I knew I was at the top of my pay scale. I know that right now I am not. The reason I e been at my company for 4 years is bc they offer certain thing I value more than money. I know I could make more money elsewhere but am waiting for other things in my life to fall into place first. Plus my boss has been receptive to my request for raises. But if I get to the point where he’s not, then I would look elsewhere.
I think the moral is “company loyalty” doesn’t/shouldn’t exist IMO. You are just an employee to your company, don’t work for less than you are worth.
Are we talking about healthcare? That’s what I was talking about - specifically in regards to doctors and advanced practice non-docs. If you’re moving yearly, that’s a bad sign.
Otherwise absolutely agree, no company has loyalty to you, you shouldn’t be loyal to them.
Plus if you're commission based as most of us are, staying in one place allows you to build a patient base and will generally mean more money if the practice is busy.
That data has to change by pay range and market sector, though. I wonder what the distribution is like.
yep - went from making 30k to 95k for essentially the same job in \~5 years by job hopping/getting offers and asking my employers to match. this works especially well if you inflate your current salary by at least 10k while applying new places.
Yes. I went from making 45k a year to 95k a year within 6 months.
Geez that’s crazy. Hope you make the most of it, basically free money if you don’t increase your lifestyle
Moved into a nice apartment. It’s a bit expensive but my girlfriend makes a little less then me so it’s no biggie. I’m very grateful.
If I ever got that much of an increase, the first thing I would do is max out my 401k. I would still be taking home 30 thousand more I was before.
This is what I've done. I went from 45k to 64k to 87k and am now maxing out my 401k, Roth IRA, and HSA. Plus saving some extra money to throw into a play account and trying everything I can to build enough to retire in 8 to 10 years. It helps that my partner is similar in her goals though she doesn't make but about half what I make.
Increasing your lifestyle is what money is for. Make sure you don't end up miserable and wealthy, that's worse than happy and broke.
The answers to your questions hinge upon the job market in your town and if you are willing to relocate or not.
And if the job can be performed remotely
not necessarily, lot of positions have gone full remote these days (I like to subscribe to the remotists job email chain, been full remote myself for 3.5 years) and Ive seen a huge uptick of companies that are "virtual first" now!
What’s the “remotest job email chain”? How does one subscribe to the chain? Thanks!
As others have said, its completely up to you.
Although, you may be at the top of your pay range for raises, you should at least expect cost of living adjustments. If your company isn't at least willing to adjust your pay to keep up with inflation and so on, you should reconsider whether you'd like to work for them.
Yeah the cost of living adjustments is what really bothers me. I currently make 8$ more a hour compared to a lot of jobs in my area. But with no cost of living adjustments how long before inflation catches up to me.
What is it that you do and why aren't they giving all their employees a cost of living bump? Without a small yearly bump the wage becomes uncompetitive. That's not sustainable for the employer. Eventually they will start to lose everyone who is capable of finding a better job.
If they are at the maximum of their pay range then they would not get anything until the range moves, usually through a market adjustment. At least this is how many companies operate. Some companies will give employees a lump sum in place of w.e merit increase (performance based increase) they would have received.
Their company will probably do a market adjustment at some point.
My company managed to get a monopoly on all the business in their field on the west coast. There's no competition left for employees to leave for. So they promptly stopped giving raises and have started all new hires at a much lower rate.
Our company did this last week.
We have been losing massive amounts of people in the last month.
Everyone got a 2$ ( min) bump.
We have list 3 of 4 Supervisors in the last month and numerous production workers.
( Southern Maine)
every year you dont at least get a cost of living raise, you are effectively working for less than you did last year.
If they are making $18/hr, it would be over 10 years to catch up to you at 3%/yr inflation. Sounds like that could be a good pay rate compared to your area, but as others have said, explore your options and know for sure. I think many people are surprised that they can get more. A few are surprised that they can't.
I honestly don't think inflation is that much of a worry for you. If you're making that much, with dual income, with no cost of living increase, just increase how much you're putting into your savings/investments. Inflation would take *forever* to catch up to you in this situation.
If you a) like your job b) like your current housing location and c) fill all your wants and needs within reason I.e. live comfortably - *I'm* of the opinion you don't need to risk throwing that all away. That is completely your assessment to make though.
There’s a quality of life question to be asked as well as to how much you enjoy your job... the grass is not always greener
Seems like you should be questioning the fact that you're not given cost-of-living raises. These raises are **supposed to be** based on yearly inflation, so when you don't get one in any year where there is inflation, you're essentially taking a pay cut.
I'm not saying they have to provide these raises or that setting a top pay rate is unreasonable, but there's also no reason you should taking a pay cut if you're both loyal to the company and have more experience than you did before.
A company is almost never going to offer you more money if they don't think they have to. You should always at least test the waters to find out your value on the market.
I was at a company for 6.5 years and didn't shop around enough. Last October, got a casual referral to another company, interviewed, got offer for 60% pay increase + stock + better benefits. Thought maybe I'd take a dip in quality of life at work but I was wrong - it's better. After this life changing increase, I have learned my lesson to always be looking or at least open to talking. "Know your worth".
It’s MUCH easier to find a job if you’re currently employed, so no harm in looking around, but I wouldn’t quit until you have an offer letter from somewhere else.
It doesn’t sound, from you’re post, like you’re in a horrible toxic work environment. You’ve just hit a ceiling. That’s not an emergency must-quit-now scenario in my opinion. But it’s certainly time to start looking.
Any company that doesn't have annual pay bumps of at least 2-3% is not worth staying at. Even if you negotiate a 10% raise now or get a promotion worth 20% tomorrow then you could be stagnant again the following year.
There are entire industries where 2-3% is the hard cap even on merit increases let alone cost of living baseline.
If you are in one of those industries you have to at least stay long enough to justify the bump on the next job change even in non-covid low inflation times.
Yup im changing jobs after nog getting a payraise. I’m 25 started working at 23 and still only earning 12 euros a hour for university degree work. I got the promise that if I stay long enough I can become partner but I can’t do it anymore.
You should always be looking for a new job. The best way to up your salary/title is a jump. This company doesn't value you why should you stay? You don't owe them anything. They are clearly letting you know they don't owe you anything. It's business not personal. Time to spread those wings.
What are your short/medium/long term goals and objectives? Will that $26/hr allow you to meet them? Do you like your job? Is it fulfilling (or allowing you to fulfill) your financial, intellectual, physical and emotional needs? Do you have energy and time to start your own thing on the side? There are lots of elements to consider beyond the hourly rate of pay.
My goal is to move up into a management/supervisor role. The problem is most of my coworkers have more seniority then me. I have worked here for 7 years while most everyone else has been here 10+. That leaves me at the bottom of the list when its promotion time. No matter how good my performance is. Also the scheduled is good and bad. The good I only work 15 days a month with a 7 day convective break thrown in. The bad is I work 12 hours swing shifts. So one week I work days shift and the next I work night shift. Physically the schedule is very taxing. Also the job is not as mentally challenging as I would like it to be.
I hate swing shifts where it's back and forth. I'd prefer a certain shift so I can adjust my body and my schedule.
I had a job recently where I would go in 4 nights, off 3, then 3 days, off 1, 3 nights, off 3, then 4 days where you then got off for a week. Luckily the work wasn’t hard so it was mostly monitoring and watching YouTube / getting on Reddit during nights but even then my brain / body did not like it at all. Never felt fully awake either during days or nights. Also forcing yourself to pull an all nighter to get ready for a night shift or forcing yourself to go to sleep at 9 Pm To get up at 4:30 a.m. was extremely challenging
This is the DuPont schedule I think, I know my operators have specifically asked to keep it. For people with kids it helps, there are only 7 night shifts every four weeks so it helps be able to be around for normal hours the rest of the time. Sounds like torture to me but it’s what they prefer
Yep it is. Oil and gas comp. it did have some perks but it started to weigh on me quite a bit
I had this schedule as a 19 year old working at Kroger but it was day shifts during the week and overnight during the weekend. I ended up quitting because all I asked of them was to not schedule me Monday and Tuesday so I could adequately change my sleep schedule back after 3 consecutive all nighters and they straight up refused to do so.
Most people I know hate overnight shifts let alone swing shifts.
Did swing for a year and some change in my early 20's and hated it. Sleep hygiene and impact on health aside, it makes it difficult to plan any sort of events outside of work when you don't know what your schedule is going to look like 2 weeks ahead.
Getting onto a permanent, static 3rd shift (9PM-5AM) was a major improvement in quality of life for me when I was doing that. Even acknowledging that night shift has its issues, still. At least with permanent nights you can restructure your life around being a vampire in a way that allows you to retain a semblance of normality in your off-hours.
>Working permanent 2nd or 3rd shift is manageable, but changing every week sounds brutal.
Edit: My experience with "swing" was apparently different than OP's. This employer didn't do "1 week days, 1 week nights". I'd be working 1st, 2nd, and 3rd shifts all in the same week at random to plug gaps in the schedule.
Jumping in to say jobs like this often have a lot of oppurtunity for overtime as one week you work 36 hours and the next you work 48
the 8 hour difference the second week is all overtime so it covers your 4 hours you missed from the week before and some.
Also a 12 hour shift of overtime can almost double your check or going in to work 4-8 hours on your off days really add up plus. Ive had 2 jobs like this they were both very physically demanding but some guys were making 80k a year in basically entry level jobs.
Schedules often stay consistent as well one shift works Sunday Monday Tuesday the other shift works Wednesday Thursday Friday and each shift works 2 saturdays a month. The long days arent for everybody and its very easy to get burnt out but the people that work at these places seem to prefer them
IMO, swing shifts should be an OSHA violation. I can do consistent nights, days, or weekends, but constantly switching fucks you up bad. I did swings for about a year, and I didn't realize how much it was effecting my performance and my health until I moved to a consistent schedule. Plus it really hurt my social life because I was always either working or sleeping when anyone wanted to do anything.
Don't mistake seniority for promotion order. Some companies will factor that in, but most of it boils down to work and interest level. Have you mentioned to any of your superiors your desire to be promoted? Have you asked what else you can be doing in your company to prepare for the next level? Making sure your interest (to the right people) is well known is important.
You literally say in your post that you are next in line for promotion. Which is it?
Hospital workers, like nurses, often switch in a week - a 12 hr day then 2 12 hour nights , a sleep day then back to a day shift. It sucks - would be so much easier on the body to do a week of days, a week of nights or better yet a month of days then a month of nights
I did that schedule at a power plant. You basically just live for that one week off.
I think you answered your own question.. time to test the market, worst case is you don't get hired anywhere and stay put for awhile, best case you move up with more opportunity! The only thing would be is if you can find what you want near where you live or if you are willing to commute or move (fellow SC resident here)
This sounds like the Dupont schedule, which works out ok if you aren't getting forced in on your days off. We work four days a weekk, 2 days and then two nights followed by four days off (rarely happens). I would definitely think about your quality of life when thinking about going someplace else or not. If you can get close to the kind of money you are making now, with a better quality of life, do it!
Agreed. This sub has a lot of people who seem to value money above all else. I could probably make more money with a different company but the place I work pretty much lets me alone to do my job, I get lots of time off and there isn't much stress...
Absolutely always be aware of your value and your options. A year ago, at the onset of the pandemic, you were probably glad to be working; today job openings outpace job seekers. Labor is a commodity and when the supply (jobseekers/workers) is down and the demand (job openings) is high, value (wages) go up. Go get paid.
Ask yourself this, do you want the added responsibility that a promotion or a position that pays more entails? Some people don’t and are completely fine with that and that’s okay.
The next question is what are other places paying for the same line/level of work?
If you answered no to the first one and other places pay (factor in benefits, vacation, shares, etc.) the same for the same level or work then no need to job hunt.
If the answers are No and Less then again no need to job hunt.
However if your answers are yes and/or more then definitely put yourself out there. Only you are in charge of what you’re worth.
That's how I felt at my last job. I was working for a Fortune 5 making about 25/hr. I gave them 10 years of my life (currently 36 years old) and busted my butt to be the 'go to" guy. I never took a sick day in all the 10 years as well. The culture was toxic but since I was a faithful and dedicated employee I stayed.
About 3.5 years ago I decided that enough was enough. I was too smart to be overlooked and undervalued.
Long story short after an Engineer interview with GE (which went well but I ended up not getting) I was contacted by an automotive company with a job offer through LinkedIn. They flew me out, paid for car service to pick me up and take me back to airport, hotel, and food. It was surreal let alone the thought of moving to a completely different state if I got the job.
Fast forward to present I love what I do. I get up every day and haven't had the thought of "damn, I have to work today." I also went from barely clearing 48k to six figures and have already received a big promotion (2 promotions since). I now work at a company where I know the things I do have a direct impact on our customers and how they see our brand.
In short, put yourself out there. If you don't wake up every day excited to go into work then you're at the wrong place just warming up your seat.
It made me so happy to read this comment! I'm so happy for you!
Every year you don't get a raise at least equal to your national inflation rate, you have in fact been given a demotion.
If you don’t get at least 3% increase a year you’re getting a pay cut, year over year.
Never tie yourself to a company. Tie yourself to a skill and an industry. Then you own the cards and get to make any move you want
You should look for a new job every few years at least, unless are seeing growth in your income at your current gig. Even then, it’s wise to see what competing companies will pay for you.
Yes, you should look for a new job while continuing to work your current gig.
If you're not getting a COL raise every year, you're essentially taking a pay cut.
I've always been of the mindset of knowing what to go when you don't get a raise with the answer being to give yourself a raise instead of course. Find another job, lower your reoccurring expenses, reduce interest if you incur anything excessive.
In short, you've been at the same job for 7 years. It's time you look for a new position. There was a dark joke we used to make about people who got fired from this one place I used to work. We all put our money on that they would end up working at a new place with better pay and they did, despite being terminated. I've switched jobs recently myself and all I can say is, you can get an immediate pay adjustment to current market rates.
Changing jobs is the surest path to a raise, and higher wages for life
This comment will probably get lost in the abyss but as someone who has worked in recruitment (not as a recruiter tho) it’s my opinion that most people should be looking/applying all the time. It’s terrible to get out of the habit of interviewing because when the right job comes along your skills are a bit rusty.
Have you asked for a raise?
Don’t wait for the promotion.
I'd absolutely be looking for jobs, even if you ultimately stay with the company. Best time is when you have a stable income already. That way you're in the position of only applying for jobs that you actually want and not worrying about the rejections. Apply for a couple cool spots a week and see what clicks.
Have you asked for a raise? The worst they can say is “no” and if you search around this subreddit you’ll find posts of people who asked and got one when they never thought they would.
Additionally, you could start looking. If you get an offer, you can either take it or use it as leverage with your current employer. It’s easy for an employer to say no to a request for a raise when there aren’t any consequences for them to say so.
The best time to look for a new job is when you don't need one. You can can picky, prioritize what's important, reject if something isn't a good fit, and not have the pressure to find the next paycheck. If you have the time and energy to look for a new job, I'd recommend giving it a shot.
if you arent getting a pay raise, then you are getting a pay-cut with inflation. Leave.
There will never be anyone in your personal or professional life that cares about your career more than you. Your company has a VERY strong incentive to keep you where you are. They also know that small rural town = limited opportunities.
Always keep your resume updated and always be looking for the next opportunity.
I have two examples, but as with anything it’s anecdotal.
A recent hire at my work left his previous job because it would be a lot of years before he could have a promotion.
15 months later he got hired back to his old company to a position created for him alongside the position he’d be promoted to in 10 or so years.
A colleague of mine, started straight after Uni at my company, stayed there for 6 years and when he saw that he wouldn’t develop more (his manager is... half of what he is at the moment) and wanted to leave a high cost of living area, handed his resignation.
3 days later he was offered a role above his manager in a corporate position where he’s expected to work from home and travel as well as a massive range of sideways opportunities.
My first guess of profession would have been public school teacher.
Look around. If you're in a specialized field, aka repairing anything, there are always options.
The big question I would ask is, do you want to move to another locale? If not, you'll be limited to nearby companies and their pay scale.
There is no right answer, but if I were you, my thought would be, "what could possibly go wrong with tring and seeing what sticks?"
I've never kept one job over 2 years since I graduated in 2015. Each time I took on a new job, my annual salary went up at least 10k, gone from 56k in 2015 to 94k currently.
Even if I enjoy working at the company I'm currently at, I am afraid to get comfortable then gets left behind. I would apply and interview at few jobs via LinkedIn, and freshen up my interviewing skill, and see where I stand in the market. (And so far, I've always found a company willing to pay me more)
My fiance on the other end, graduated in 2016, and has been with the same company since. Her salary went from 54k in 2016 to 93k currently. She became the subject matter expert and the company praised her with salary increase to keep her from thinking of moving elsewhere.
Every year they do not give you a coat of living adjustment, they are essentially docking your pay by the rate of inflation. You are effectively being paid less every year.
So yes, get out of there. What a strange company, they must not care about retaining talent at all
Well, have you asked for a raise or promotion?
That's normally step one.
If I were in your shoes, I'd at least look around to see what else is available in your area. It would be hard to blame you for looking, if you're maxed out and openings to move up are few and far in between.
Reasons to stick it out might be stuff like:
* If you were to find the job really fulfilling.
* You really enjoy the people that you work with.
* There are other aspects to the job that add a lot of value. That would be things like favorable/flexible scheduling. Getting tons of paid time off. Better than normal health insurance coverage.
* Company is established and very stable, so there's little to no worry about the place laying you off.
Based on other comments you've made in this thread, it sounds like you're locked in with respect to pay, you have a schedule that you find draining, and you don't find the work particularly fulfilling. Sounds to me like you should at least look around and see what your other options are.
Yea I’d start looking for a job and see what you get. Dont be afraid to apply to something thats a bit higher up than what you think.
I just left an employer I was with for 2 years, I exceeded all my performance metrics and they wanted to give me nothing, they would always say stuff like “all you employees should just be happy to have a job” to everyone in the company.
I applied to like 5 places and got 2 offers both with a massive pay raise and better benefits. (~+30-40%)
If a recruiter or anyone asks why you want to leave, just tell them your looking for the next step in your career and your looking to make things happen. Its not that your current employer is bad just maybe that the whole company is kinda stagnant (I always try and say good stuff even if they arnt)
Dont quit till you get offers.
It never hurts to interview and see what else you could get. Sounds like your skills are being undervalued. So give it a shot and see. Just don't tell your current employer.
As everyone as said it’s up to you. Financially it probably makes sense to shop around as generally you will always get better money.
However, a secure comfortable job that pays the bills might be right thing for now. Planning on having kids and want to take time off? Much easier to ask for with a longer tenure. Want to take a holiday for a while... Longer tenure is good. Don’t want the stress of being let go if a global pandemic happens... It’s not always about the $$$ (although sometimes it is...)
Are you happy with the overall stress/work load you have at the moment? If so then $26 is not bad if you’re happy.
Just be aware of stagnation. You don’t want to be there so long that you are there forever and feel like you are wasting time. Look into further development/training if you think you have the time? It’s never going to be a waste of time to up-skill.
Best way to get a raise is to leave for another company.
>My question is should I be looking for another job?
Yes, **if** salary is the key driver for you **and/or** there's nothing "special" about your current job.
It's perfectly valid to stay in a job in which you are "underpaid" **if** your current position makes you fulfilled, keeps you interested and growing, you love the people, has great hours that allows you to have a good life after work, etc. In other words, it's ok to make less than the norm if, in spite of it, you are happy. In making your decision, keep in mind that salary is only one part of the equation, and that it's rarely worth it to stay in a job that you don't enjoy just for more money (if you can afford it, of course).
(Having said that: the lack of cost of living increases is a concern, though. The above still applies, but that means you are actually losing ground every year.)
If, on the other hand, there's little about your job that you particularly enjoy, or if the parts you like are not enough to make up for the lack of advancement. Perhaps a good way to think about it is something like this: say you are making $5k less than you could elsewhere. Ask yourself "would I pay $5k to be able to work at my current job rather than have to do \[alternative job\]?"
Dude. There are so many companies out there. Sooo many. Not only do each have their own pay structure but each has its own culture and benefits. Not to mention their own way of doing the work.
Go to another company. Make more money. Learn new skills. Then you'll be even more valuable d down the line.
Get outta there!
This comment may get lost, but I want to recommend that you have a conversation about growth and development with your manager. You should let them know that you want to pursue whatever position it is that you want to pursue and ask for feedback in terms of how to get there and how long it will take. You should also network like crazy. Ask your boss’ boss for a skip-level 1 on 1 meeting so you can communicate your ambition and ask for career advice in terms of how to take your career to the next level.
All of these conversations should tell you everything you need to know about whether you need to stay or go, and whether or not they view you as having potential to climb the ladder.
I will definitely give it a try. Unfortunately my manager is fairly new. She has only been over my department for a year and I have only physically seen her or spoke to her two times.
ALWAYS be interviewing for a new job every year or so to see if you can get more. You are not ever guaranteed a promotion. Take more money whenever offered (and it won't screw your work-life balance)
Absolutely! Your employer isn't valuing you and your work. Get your resume etc in good order and have a look.
It never hurts to interview for companies. Worst case, you’re in the same job you are now. Best case, you’ve got a (hopefully) better job and/or better pay.
Not getting at least a COLA for several years in a row is pay cut, plain and simple.
Every year, update your resume and at least look at the job market. It's way better to evaluate your options regularly when you're not under direct pressure to be looking for jobs. You might find a surprise in the market. If you do a few interviews it'll help keep your interview skills up, which are always different than job skills.
Having a job is a combination of many factors not just pay. Happiness with the work, and the environment is very important. Also, the commute, etc. If you are at this job just for the pay then, yes, it is time to start looking at other potential opportunities. Looking at other jobs will give you an idea also of what you may be able to get in the way of salary.
Since you asked - yes you should look for another job. Waiting years for a potential promotion and a salary increase is a dead end.
When management looks out at you in their cube farm or shop floor do they see average or do you shine? Are you just waiting for the promotion and killing time or do you like what you do?
You have a partner, you're making $52k, what is she/he adding? Have you fully recovered from the layoff in your savings? People who live in HCOL areas often also live in low employment opportunity areas as well. Your emergency fund should be more than 6 months if there are few jobs around.
But what I hear is someone who feels stuck in a job and not sure where to go next. If your job is stable but roadblocked, the job isn't your only option.
Is a side job or side business a possibility? Would night or on-line classes improve your employability at another employer? This is the time to sit down with your partner and talk. What would you like the future to be? Do you want to be the "promotion" for the next 10, 20 years or is that promotion just a roadblock of a different color?
You could start investing your excess into stock and build income that way. You could buy a small rental property and earn more that way and possibly turn into a business. In other words, you have options besides just sitting in a job waiting for someone to die, so you can move forward.
I worked in a company for 22 years. I saved and made them hundreds of thousands of dollars and was summarily dismissed in an early morning meeting. But as it turned out, the best thing that company did for me was to let me go. Because I haven't worked for anyone ever since that day. This is a fork in the road moment, take the time to decide which direction you want to go, don't wait for some guy to die.
> I have been at the same company for 7 years and I am next in line for a promotion
You didn't go into details, but this is a common sentiment that I hope I'm just misreading. Getting promoted is about achieving things, getting things done (ideally; in some cases, it's just about writing docs and playing politics), not about putting in the time.
You don't say what you do, but if there are other jobs in your industry in your city, doesn't hurt to apply and see what happens.
I think this is a great time to put together a resume, and a portfolio of all the value that you bring to the company, numbers wherever possible, go to your boss, and say "I've been working really hard to bring value to the company, but I'd like to bring some of that value back home too, I'd like a raise to XX$ per hour please" and start the conversation/negotiations. If nothing else, the exercise in defining your value will help you if they balk and you end up having to go to other companies and interview for other jobs, because you'll have a very clear idea of what skillsets and value you bring to the table.
Find another job and leave
Unless you are in sales and on the income generating side of the business, you are essentially an expense.
Expense side of balance sheet is always going to be shrunk at any opportunity, and reluctantly accepted by ownership where it cannot be.
4 years means you are a fixture to them like the AC unit. Leave bro