T O P
laziestsloth1

> I get told that Im "fighting people" or that Im arrogant. Have you actually reflected on this? Usually people don't say such things unless there is some truth to it. If you are open to feedback you should really evaluate why people think this. It doesn't seem like they hate you for your views or arguments, they just think you are arrogant/combative


DeLovehlyCoconute

It's something to consider deeply seeing as how it's been said so often. Until looking at it though, I find taking someone at face value can be detrimental to OP's social development. Such as it's highly unlikely everyone around him is wrong and he's right but I have seen it happen before on rare occasions.


codythepainter

No body ever said being honest would be comfortable, but it’s essential nonetheless.


idrinkapplejuice42

At a certain point though it has ptactical effects on your life. Limits your work, family, and social prospects.


codythepainter

It can yes. But I’ve found that usually any issue someone has with truth spoken is often a problem of my own delivery. (9 times out of 10, there is always that 1 that is offended by everything.) That perspective allows me to take responsibility for how I convey and communicate and ultimately work to be better. Even Jordan discuses this in a lot of his live lectures. They evolve at each event because he’s using the feedback of the audience to gauge how accurately he’s communicating and how effectively he’s holding attention. My point is: DO NOT silence yourself. Instead, work to communicate better.


DaGriff

I agree with this above. An important thing to remember is that when you propose a new way of thinking that opposes a particular framework that is part of someone world view, then they will feel psychologically threatened. That take along time to reprogram your mind for new framework. In the mean time you need to try and have the most sophisticated conversation possible and stop as soon as it becomes unproductive. Then I would say “don’t cast pearls before swine” which means some people are incapable of hearing the truth. So don’t stop speaking truth just stop speaking truth to those people. Lastly how do you define truth?


Wasntryn

To add: This assumes that the communication is done effectively. And that the belief system this person holds isn’t insane.


DaGriff

Agreed, that’s what I mean by sophisticated conversation. After that it depend on how you define truth. Truth is truth, like gravity it applies to everyone, yet some people can jump higher than others. It’s up to the individual to figure out how effectively apply it to their life. I identifying truth when you hear it is like a muscle that needs to be developed. The better you get at it the more truth you will find.


CBAlan777

Learning to communicate better is great, but so is learning when it's a waste of time to talk to someone.


codythepainter

Agreed


khi_ZA

And another thing if people aren't listening to you it's not worth giving them your attemtion.


idrinkapplejuice42

Look at how articulate jordan is and how many people still totally misunderstand him. I think he kinda speaks to this with the idea that you should not throw pearls before swine. Some people are not capable of appreciating what you have to say no matter how its phrased. A pig will never appreciate a pearl no matter how you present it to them. I feel strongly about this because i have greatly improved my delivery and its done very little for me.


irimi

>Look at how articulate jordan is and how many people still totally misunderstand him. I think he kinda speaks to this with the idea that you should not throw pearls before swine. Some people are not capable of appreciating what you have to say no matter how its phrased. A pig will never appreciate a pearl no matter how you present it to them. I feel strongly about this because i have greatly improved my delivery and its done very little for me. This tells us everything about why your "telling the truth" is burning bridges and closing doors. It's because you're being an arrogant prick who thinks that people don't understand you because they're too stupid. Listen to u/TheRightMethod. This isn't about your presentation, and it certainly isn't about "the truth". It's about your intent and your character - both in these conversations and out of them.


The-Cheesemaster

You are probably right. As hitting the hammer on the nail goes, but my God, please have a little class. I get it, it's internet and who cares if you cuss but this is JPs followers so take into account that majority of people on this sub are trying to better them selves on a daily basis. But when you call him an arrogant prick (and perhaps he is) he no longer listens to your reasoning and focus on making your argument into a straw man via a defensive tactics to self-preserving ones dignity.


irimi

I'm well aware of the tack that I intentionally chose here and its harshness. A few follow-up thoughts to this: \- Others have tried a less direct approach, to no avail. Let's see if a direct one gets through (it didn't). It's admittedly a low percentage move for sure. \- I'm not here to make friends, and have nothing to gain or lose either way, so actually it doesn't matter that I come out of this looking like an ass. \- Of course, there's also the rich irony of my claiming "I'm just telling the truth here too" to further illustrate the point. Apologies on my unawareness that "prick" is viewed as a cuss word. Where I'm from, it's not. :) Last but not least, your call-out here is both expected and appreciated! Have my upvote.


The-Cheesemaster

Love you man. Am from Yorkshire and we say prick a lot, it's not so much a cuss word but derogative. But hey brother, we can be friends. Men need to support other men in troubling times like this.


JAMellott23

This little thread is why I can still be on this sub. Articulate response, a balanced counter point, another balanced counter, and everyone is friendly at the end. Bravo.


memasmuffn

There is a huge difference between the reaction of a person who as you put it is "stupid" and a person with narcissistic tendencies. The latter, I have found, are the ones who shut down conversation by showing hate, disgust, name calling and such. The uneducated change the subject.


idrinkapplejuice42

Youre misunderstand me, because I currently do throw pearls before swine so to speak. My assumption has generally been that if I just explain myself well enough everybody will understand me. That has not worked out so well. Im only now reflecting on what jordan says about not throwing pearls before swine. This has not been my modus operandi in the past and Im considering now after not having success being forthcoming with everybody.


irimi

>Youre misunderstand me, because I currently do throw pearls before swine so to speak. I don't misunderstand you one bit. Your thinking that you are throwing pearls before swine **is the problem**. If you seriously hope to make any progress with anybody in this world, the first step would be to get off the mindset that you are in any way the person throwing pearls, rather than the swine.


ImagineImagining2

Honestly work I would keep My mouth shut and conform to whatever belief but socially? Nah I don’t care if you ask me what I believe I will say it, other wise I don’t want a relationship with you.


IamJamesFlint

Sometimes being silent is justified. If you stay motivated by truth and love, you will have the discernment to know when to speak and when not to. Operate out of truth AND love, then let the chips fall where they may.


the-dan-man

Yes, it alienates us. Of course it's honourable to be honest. But we are not in a movie. Life is hard and we need to play the game. Especially if at the bottom of the ladder. And especially if our peers are in constant competition with us.


Mister_13s

Separating the thresh from the wheat, my guy. Honesty is the rake. All those people who dislike you for telling the truth and being honest: you never needed them in the first place. I only have a handful of friends, because they're the only handful, out of the hundreds, if not a thousand people, I've come across, who appreciate the honesty for the mere fact that it's truthful. And by golly are they truly my ride-or-die. I love them and they love me. They are the wheat that was separated from the thresh who can't live with honesty. Give it time, my dude. You'll come across maybe 1 in 100 in a few years, but they'll be your road dogs and you'll be thankful. Guaranteed. Keep your chin up, don't let the stink of the trash get you down.


LuckyPoire

Its "chaff", not "thresh".


Mister_13s

Ah you're right. Thank you.


JohnDax

but it also frees you from a lot of bullshit... the older you get the more you will appreciate honesty...


Uch009

Certainly not boring!


CBAlan777

Essential to who? For what purpose? Why do you care?


codythepainter

Are you asking me the value of being truthful with yourself and others?


CBAlan777

You said "it's essential" I'm asking you who is it essential to? For what purpose is it essential, and why do you care?


IamJamesFlint

Being truthful is essential to properly mapping the metaphysical landscape that is navigated through personal and purposeful development.


Pssychedelicious

I feel genuine, for the first time in my life. I would never trade that feeling for anything less. Still, you can be tactful, and context is important. It gets better because you get better at it. Humility is very important.


zen33824

Tactful is the right word for sure. I don't say anything I belive to be untrue, but sometime I do decide to cut off the conversation in a subtle way, if I'm at work or some other situation where it seems necessary.


TheRightMethod

Yeah it's really hard to give any advice because nobody has any idea what your views are, what you say, how you say it, what others are saying etc. The term 'truth' here isn't objective, it's just your subjective version of it. You might be right or wrong but without context there isn't much anyone can suggest.


DespacitiFettuccini

Look at his post history he’s kinda lost the plot


TheRightMethod

I've commented further, there is a history of behaviour that explains why OP gets a lot of pushback.


richasalannister

Wants a good job without a degree while also claiming people that want that are coddled babies lol


Glucose-6-P

Go to OP's submission history, sort by controversial and you'll see what kind of truths OP is talking about, haha


idrinkapplejuice42

Lol thats a cheap tactic. Anyways what Im talking about isnt stuff having to do with my post history. Im talking about very normal interactions day to day.


nowonderimstillawake

Not really a cheap tactic. Someone's post history sheds light on who they are and how they conduct themselves in discourse. If you stand by the things you said then there shouldn't be a problem defending them. If you on the other hand say things you don't stand by or are repeatedly rude or combative in your discourse on reddit, that sheds light on who you are as a person.


idrinkapplejuice42

Thats fair. But to clarify Im speaking about truth in the sense of "sincerely held beliefs". Im careful when expressing my thought to somebody to say something like "From my understanding it appears to me that...... however maybe there's something I'm not understanding so please tell me if I'm missing something." I have no idea how to word things in a more respectful way. At a certain point I feel like it's hopeless to try.


TheRightMethod

Just to add and I didn't want It to get lost in an edit so I am making a second post. After a fairly quick read over some of your comments I can give you one piece of advice that may prove useful. Be substantially more aware and careful of how often you 'speak for' other people. It seems rather common in your comments that you will summarize/paraphrase the opinions of others (entire groups) and then build your opinion off of it. It's a weak form of commiting a strawman. It's very difficult to have a conversation when someone else is making statements like "Well they think " before you state your views. So maybe that's something you can just try and be cognizant of in the future and see if it helps? Just look over your comment(s) and if you see that you're expressing an opinion that isn't yours or summarizing on someone else's behalf, just cut it out before posting.


TheRightMethod

I know it's really tough to get across but just like with any kind of coaching, unless we can see it in action it's really hard to listen to your explanation of what you feel you're doing and what's actually taking place. Not trying to dismiss you but if I was coaching kids in baseball and a kid is telling me "I'm squaring up to the plate, I'm holding my bat in the correct position, I watch the pitchers shoulder, keep my eye on the ball, rotate my hips and lead with my elbow but I constantly miss the ball" the coach would just say "Show me". That said, I'm glad you're using the term 'truth' in a correct and non new age way. Personally though, I am a bit hesitant from my own experience. Often whenever I've heard someone talk about how reasonable and level headed they are and how everyone else rejects their thoughts/ideas it usually ends up being entirely their own doing. Not saying this is the case with you but my own experiences don't give me a lot of hope... I've been in debate, I have always had groups of friends or colleagues that span views often polar opposite to my own and I've always managed to have healthy and meaningful discussions with them. You mention your views are often opposite to others and that people get upset the more you try and discuss. Are you engaging in a dialogue or trying to win the argument? I think the best way to self diagnose this is to look back at the types of questions you ask people. Do you ask a question that is open ended and makes it easy for the other person to fill in gaps in your knowledge or understanding OR are you questions more like a Lawyer's where you already know the answer or trying to get an answer that'll fit into your next argument? Communication is complicated and nuanced, I can tell someone else "Please, I'm trying to understand your side" and make it come across and genuinely interest or the most backhanded statement ever. Again... It's just so hard to know what you're doing. All I can say is, people have fascinating and deep discussions/debates all of the time so unfortunately it's probably your fault. Unfortunately it could be the way you're speaking or the company you keep.


idrinkapplejuice42

I think that the reason you are involved in debate is because you have an open mind to explore ideas. I dont think most people are this way by default. I honestly do ask questions like a lawyer cause people bs me all the time. I get wrong answers or inconsistent questions, so for example when being trained at a job Ill say something like "I know you said X right now but Ive heard Y from you before. Maybe I didnt understand, or am misunderstanding right now, but which one is correct, or when should I apply X and when should I apply Y?" Obviously its kinda hard to phrase this in the abstract but that should give you a general idea of how I speak. I honestly think part of my problem is that Im not super expressive so I dont think its hard for people to read me. I think most people rely heavily on tonality and body language and sometimes arent fully listening to the content of somebodys speech. Take the recent video of Jordan that was posted here of him discussing racism on a bbc panel. He was saying that its important that we talk about the particular details of a racist incident. I dont think any on that panel would actually disagree with what he was actually saying but they jumped on him I think due to their own prejudice as well as his tonality and body language which seemed a bit oppositional and dismissive.


TheRightMethod

I commented on that post. Jordan Peterson was 100% at fault for the confusion and the backlash he received from the other panel members. Nobody in their life has used air quotes to signify 'topic resolution'. I even mentioned in my comment that I wholly believe his intention during the discussion but his air quotes were fucking stupid. I would never give another speaker the middle finger and then try and say I was simply trying to indicate that I had a comment or question to add (the way you'd raise your index finger). Like it or not, we have established body language rules and he fucked up. Edit: >I honestly do ask questions like a lawyer cause people bs me all the time. I would certainly suggest to stop doing that then. Nobody wants to be put into a corner where the person asking questions is seeking a very narrow and specific answer which benefits them and denies the person answering the opportunity to express themselves.


SomeOne9oNe6

You may be coming off robotic; emotionless. Without knowing your views, quirks, character, it would be difficult to gage you through a medium such as this. Who knows? Maybe you do come off as abrasive, reactionary, defensive, self-righteous, or even neurotic. We wouldn't know. If it isn't that, my bet would be the former. In that case, it would be of use to practice some empathy exercises. Maybe some meditation to go over your thoughts, be sure what you're thinking is, in fact, appropriate.


Cletus-Van-Damm

If you views are repugnant no amount of how much you honestly believe them will fix that. I dont know what you believe but to trigger such revulsion in people, but it certainly throws up a few red flags.


Morrisix

On what sorts of topics tend to be the most inflammatory? Do your opinions tend to result in this outcome across many topics?


idrinkapplejuice42

Literally everything lol. I think I just have more nuanced views in general and am more skeptical than most. Often times nuance is misconstrued as total disagreement and skepticism sends others the message that you dont trust them.


romerlys

This! The "You mentioned an argument against my position, so you are against me - enemy!" stance. It's horrible when you literally just want to explore arguments on both sides of an issue, because proponents of both sides will think you are their enemy and be instantly aggressive (or defensive).


SomeOne9oNe6

It's not so much as to what you say, but how it's said. Context is everything.


vvillehelm

It's the current state of the world. We're experiencing a high level of ideological spread. If you are actually being as polite and honest as you claim, then you're encountering a lot of people around you who are ideological and you should take note of that and move away from those people where possible. You can also choose not to offer your perspectives to people who won't value them.


AktchualHooman

“The problem is I am too nuanced so people disagree with me on literally everything…” You might want to check one or more of your assumptions.


idrinkapplejuice42

I mean your putting something in quotes that i didnt say. Its true that when you try to have nuance on anything you end up upsetting everybody that has a very black and white take.


AktchualHooman

I’m restating what you said to demonstrate the internal contradiction. I obviously wasn’t directly quoting you and I didn’t intend to misrepresent what you said. You made a black and white claim “Literally everything lol” and then claimed that your problem stems from being nuanced in a comment utterly lacking nuance. You might have nuanced opinions and think of yourself as nuanced but your expression simply isn’t. My guess is that you are just immature and that your self conception of being nuanced is not without merit, you just lack awareness about how what you say is interpreted. I might be just projecting though.


CBAlan777

Same to you.


AktchualHooman

Feel free to elaborate.


crispyimpala

Give an example.


the-dan-man

Damn, you sound like me. I have the exact problems with people and relating with people in general.


IamJamesFlint

Perhaps you are listening too much. Most people speak flippantly. Keep that in mind. They don't take a socratic approach to conversation. Think of the conversation like singing a duet not solving a math problem. You can still sing your own lyrics while singing in harmony, keeping in mind the goal of making a joyous noise motivated by love and truth.


TopTierTuna

As others have asked - what are you calling "truth"? And have you given thought as to what it's like to be on the receiving end of this "truth" you're telling people? If it's advice on what others ought to do or think, do you similarly appreciate advice on what to do or think? If it's in regards to how things ought to be, do you appreciate others telling you how things ought to be? Telling the truth can also be in the form of a complaint. "My feet are cold," or "This is boring," etc. might be examples of telling the truth, but who likes a complainer when there's work to be done or even when there's fun to be had? Obviously there's a lot of truth out there, but it's up to you to determine which of it is deserving of articulation. It could be that the truth isn't what people around you are uncomfortable with, but rather your choice of what to highlight. Similarly, it could also involve your appreciation of what they find important enough to highlight.


punchdrunklush

You don't *always* have to say something though, you know.


parsons525

I think that’s the key thing.


Jake_FromStateFarm27

Truth is a difficult concept, you're gonna have to be more specific about the "truths" that you share if you want genuine advice or help in social situations. It sounds like you are sharing political truths as well as personal truths which are not the same as an objective or empirical truth. There are many different types of truths that exist but that doesn't make them all accurate, reliable, or verifiable. If you are sharing these political truths or approval truth (an opinion) than it is easy for anyone to see it as arrogant especially when you label your statements as truths. I think a better approach would to be instead of posing it as an affirmative would to be pose them in the form of questions for discussions rather than just saying what you "see as truth"


wilderop

It is important when have a conversation for it to be enjoyable, to begin with what you agree on. It's unlikely you are going to change anyone's mind, but you definitely won't if you don't start on common ground. You need to tactfully feel out if the other person really wants to hear your unfiltered opinion. It they don't genuinely want to hear it, you're wasting everyone's time by sharing it.


DeLovehlyCoconute

Mmhm. There was a book where a guy said to befriend the elephant before the rider. The elephant being emotion and the rider being reason.


wilderop

The Righteous Mind


[deleted]

What are some examples of the truths you are speaking?


ctrl_f_sauce

The point isn’t to win, the point is to be invited back.


frankypoist

I'm glad you said this, I fully agree. I truly think this is the one thing JP got wrong. Truth is important, yes - but delivery is as important - and his angle like "truth now, response be damned" is counterproductive. And I think it's why he's poorly received. I want the man to succeed, and I believe it's because of this principal that he's failing (in the eyes of the general public). A better solution is to study interpersonal communication. If you want a quick-fix, look into "response sets", NLP, and the book Influence. To go deeper, research interpersonal communication - there are great textbooks on the topic. But mostly NLP, that'll get you the furthest. These teach you how to deliver a message properly, by appealing to critical thinking and the others' interests, baby-stepping agreement through response sets, etc. If JP would use these tools during interviews, his message might be more distributed. Instead, he comes across as stubborn as his opponents, which then creates argument rather than dialog. I've gone my whole life being hated for my truths. It's a personal and deep issue for me. I "snapped" on my own eventually, where I stopped trying to people-please in discussions - got mad, and started sticking up for my truths. It made things worse, *much* worse. Eventually I studied proper delivery techniques through interpersonal communication, and that's when things started working out for me. Now I can convince people to at least consider my point (you can't use these tools to force an opinion, like magic manipulation - they're just delivery techniques). Conversations are substantially more productive for me now. I kind of wish I could have a chat with JP to present this belief. He'd stubbornly resist, I'd "agree and twist", and if I could convince him by the end - that would be proof in the pudding. He has a lot of incredibly valuable information to present, and it's important to me that he can do so successfully. And the same for us.


Curiositygun

Jordan has added the caveat that sometimes you don't know the truth and I think the backlash one might receive is more from the arrogance of believing one might perfectly understand a situation rather than actually expressing the truth. The response common to criticism people use >"you don't know me!" is an apt one because you expressing the truth would be framing your information in the context of not completely possessing the knowledge and experience of another's life. You remove that framing and that's not you expressing the truth, that's you lying.


blahgblahblahhhhh

Peterson doesn’t say speak the truth so much as he says at least don’t lie. Speaking the truth is a great honor


[deleted]

[удалено]


blahgblahblahhhhh

To assume you know the truth is either a burden that ur not so eager to share or a desperate plea for validation


[deleted]

[удалено]


Iregularlogic

Context and what you’re saying are key, here.


tauofthemachine

I realize it's a bit cliched, but... We live in a society. Unfortunately for a Peterson puritan, society at the best of times is a thin layer over a messy human reality. Most people are struggling to just do the best they can. Telling your "truth" might feel good to you, but if it upsets someone else's "truth", of course that person is going to think you're a jerk.


Tweetledeedle

I think a better interpretation of being truthful is to only say things that are true, not to say everything that you think is true. If someone asks your opinion on something and you know that they will not like it, then it’s ok to say that you’d rather not share if you’d like to avoid an argument, or something similar to that. What’s important is that you aren’t lying or withholding situational- or time-sensitive important information.


F_D123

The truth can be nuanced. Two people with completely opposite viewpoints can both be speaking the truth. You need to learn social skills and the autists here need to stop encouraging you to be an obnoxious know it all.


John_Mansell

* Ask Questions * I find you can make much more progress, and people are much more receptive, if you ask questions. Rather than telling people what you believe ask them what they believe. Then, if there is a reason you believe differently from them, do your best to find good questions and scenarios which highlight the cognitive dissonance necessary to hold the opposing position. Let them work it out themselves. They may come to your side, or they may not. If they wrestle through it, they may agree with you. If they wrestle through it and still just weigh different factors differently than you, you will likely still be able to cordially disagree with each other because you understand how each of you got to your conclusions. Even better, they may point out something you missed. Always assume the person you're talking to knows something you don't. "Leftist gets DESTROYED by JP" makes a great YouTube video, but it's a terrible way to interact with people you are going to see tomorrow. Cordial or not, no one wants to get obliterated with facts. Especially since random statistics quoted in conversation rarely hold the weight to them that they will to you. To you it's the epitome of proof of your point. To them, they don't know of you're citing your source or misremembering the numbers etc. An argument where you're disproving each other is never a good way to convince people. When you let them work through it on their own, you can both have respect and work toward a solution (or at least an understanding) * Examples * What do you believe is the fundamental role of government? How can a democracy protect from the tyrany of the majority? If healthcare were to be run by the government, what current government agency gives you confidence that the government could handle healthcare well? DMV? Public education? Police? CIA? If they are focussed on the disparate outcomes of men and women, ask what interventions the government should take to ensure men and women get incarcerated at the same rate. Currently it's about 90-10.


idrinkapplejuice42

They killed socrates for asking questions.


John_Mansell

You win some you lose some.


madrolla

People are not thinking as much as they are letting themselves get carried away by their job, family, gf/bf, career. Not everyone stops and thinks. You are one of them. Be patient with them.


Southern-Physics6488

Some people don’t want the truth and some can’t handle it.


NavyNukeMan

I have bottled my honest opinion my entire life, and I completely lost myself. Dr Berene brown says you can’t hide one part of yourself without hiding all of it. I’m serious I lost the ability to feel. And just over the past two years I’ve been learning to express myself. One vulnerable moment triggered a week long panic attack. I’m starting to feel again and find myself, but it’s tough. Point is, don’t stop expressing the truth. One thing to possibly look at is how you’re expressing it or if you are really listening to other peoples points of view.


Silverfrost_01

Got burned really bad expressing what I believe to be the truth. Lost long time friends and I’ve had trouble standing my ground on my views ever since. It’s tough.


NotessimoALIENS

stop trying to redpill people


Diogenes5847

Exactly. /u/idrinkapplejuice42, You've got to ask yourself, "What is it I'm hoping to gain?" Are you seeking validation, popularity? If so, then tell people only what they want to hear. Do you wish to educate people? Well, that takes time and very careful communication. It requires that you know something about the person you're trying to educate, where they're coming from, how they've formed their beliefs. If you just want to be seen to be right and wise, then I'd say that's not a very noble goal and it's definitely bound to piss people off. If your goal is simply to tell the truth as you see it, then you should work like hell to make sure your truth is as refined as possible, and get a lot better at explaining things. Until then, you might want to practise giving answers that are technically true but omit any controversial statements that you might not be prepared to defend there and then. Discretion is the better part of valour and we should choose our battles wisely if we wish to hold onto a relatively secure foothold in the social world.


Paulsifer4

"The truth is like poetry; people fuckin' hate poetry." - The Big Short


helloimdeadinside

I’m in the exact same position you are right now. I literally just got off the phone with someone who’s upset with me for choosing to not take sides in their drama because I don’t know what’s going on and don’t want to blindly support their side. And I was just trying to be as truthful as possible. The truth will get most people angry with you


TitusBjarni

"Truth in service of love" Of course not all truths should be communicated. You might think someone is ugly or stupid or whatever, but you certainly shouldn't say it. Your truth should be aimed at the betterment of being. Maybe you need to get better at interacting with other people in a way where you assume the other person knows something you don't. Ask them questions. Hear them out. Be humble. At a deeper mental/spiritual level, is your ego attached to your opinions and thoughts? If your sense of self is tied up with your opinions, then you'll end up unconsciously giving off signals that that is the case. But some people are just so ideologically possessed that they just cannot tolerate any opposing ideas. It can be tricky.


blahgblahblahhhhh

Well what’s ur intent when talking to people? You can’t tell people something they don’t like and expect them to keep talking to you. It sounds like you value changing people and being right rather than wanting people to honor you.


andrei_89

There are two sayings that might help you 1. Is not what you say, but how you say it that matters 2. Everything you say must be true, but not everything that is true must be said


daniel_n

Why is it that hardly anybody is saying "be precise in your speech?" If you're finding that you're pretty much always on the rough end of a discussion, it's probably because you are having difficulty expressing yourself clearly and coherently.


Zimriah

I know some may not be religious in this thread but nonetheless I thought this would be appreciated for it's wisdom. Jesus in John 15:18-19 says, “If the world hates you, be aware that it hated me before it hated you. If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own. Because you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world—therefore the world hates you." If Jesus gave any commandment beyond 'love thy neighbor' then it would be speak the truth. The world (the people in it) will revolt against truth because it burst the bubble of delusion they have built. It's not easy and it doesn't feel good but it is ethical and principled of you. Know that with every truth spoken you leave behind a less ignorant and less fragile world.


GoldenShoeLace

I used to be a Christian and truly believed the Bible to be the word of god and would quote that passage exactly like you did. When I stopped believing, I realized how arrogant and truly narrow minded I was and that while I believed I was sharing good news it was not the case to everyone I bothered. I almost didn’t respond here because there really isn’t a point and neither of us will gain anything from us sharing our opinions. All that to say…the “I’m just being honest” type of approach isn’t that constructive. No matter what you’re being honest about.


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Curiositygun

Are you sure maybe you're helping OP save time by not quoting the bible to people who don't want to hear about it? People, a lot of them in this thread and the OP, often misunderstand this about Peterson's rule. Sometimes expressing the truth or being honest involves admitting you don't know everything about the topic your discussing or the topics that are related to it.


GoldenShoeLace

I have two thoughts here. The verses that were shared tend to sum up the thought process of the majority of Christians. They have a sacred knowledge and those who don’t accept it are of the world and “hate” that sacred truth. I can’t (or won’t) spend time entertaining a belief or attitude that I find so abhorrent. Secondly, I felt an immense sense of guilt and loss of purpose after finally admitting I did not believe in a god. While I detest the importance our society places in a person’s religious beliefs, I don’t want to be the edgy atheist trying to change people’s minds. I don’t have any answers. So, while I won’t listen to someone preach to me, I’m not going to say anything either. You go that way and I’ll go this way. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts all the same though. Thank you.


AvatarAgumon

Maybe you have that look of somebody who is a follower and not someone who takes charge. I know for a fact that people (even strangers) take issue whenever I display any assertive traits or try to correct someone.


jedi24guardian

Wow, I have experienced exactly the same, and wish I had more people to talk to about it. Please PM me. I’ve had people treat me worse, cut me off, and do deliberate harm since I took a personal oath to always tell the truth a few years ago. It’s because most of the people I knew and interacted with regularly were actually low-quality people: no goals, no aim, living in personal hell but in denial about it. They’d use people for their own benefit, they’d play games and not care about the well-being of others or their future selves. So, when you speak the truth around people like that - which includes calling out deliberate wrongdoing and damage that people to do others and situations - those cowards double down on their personal Hell and resent you, try to tear you down, try to hurt you. Because they don’t want to take accountability for their own faults and fix them. They’d rather place the blame on others: the ones speaking the truth. It’s a sad, sad thing. I’ve really been damaged by it personally because I really, really cared about certain people who I believed were good people…but then they showed their true colors. There are a lot of people like this. The sad accuracy is that telling the truth and always trying to do the right thing will put you in a small minority, and will make your life more difficult and sad…at least in the short-term. I don’t know what to do about it, personally.


Lindethiel

I feel that 'speak the truth' pairs the best with 'be precise in your speech.' When I first started doing the former, yeah, some people who I had been putting on the bubbly, happy-go-lucky facade for got a bit turned off, but now they're not really in my circles now anyway. When I started pairing the latter together, I'd be able to say things more like 'I'm not saying that I believe x, but this is what that perspective is getting at...' etc. It goes better when you use that pre-qualifyer.


vaendryl

> When he is asked about his beliefs and he trys to articulate them people just misunderstand him and jump on him. No matter how charitable or well spoken he is it is not enough to bridge the gap between him many others. I see the toll its take on him. I just dont know if its worth it. For him or for me. yes. but who do you respect more? who do you think will do better *long term*? life takes a toll on everyone and going with the flow trying to minimise it has always been an option. JP's rules are an antidote to chaos, not a directive on how to live an easy life. arguing your point properly takes great skill, and getting into a shouting match over trivial stuff helps nobody. you should speak the truth or at the very least *do not lie*. you should certainly use a bit of prudence to decide when to keep your opinion to yourself, as silence can be golden. even when pressed for an opinion.


bigotbro

Without specific context it is impossible to accurately assess or respond to your situation/questions.


nogaynessinmyanus

Give us specific examples and you'll get some truthful critique.


Psansonetti

Ron Paul has a great quote about being asked dont you realize that you aren't going to change things, you silly old fool, and he says, yeah i realized very early that i wasn't going to change all that much, now all i have is the solace that if I'm not going to rub off on them for the better, then at least I'm not going to let them rub off on me for the worse. you dont tell the truth for brownie points, you tell the truth because its the truth, and you sleep better that way than you would if you didn't tell the truth i know this is going to sound crazy, but i swear its true,at least that i believe it to a certainty, but the more dialed in my health is, the more people will actually listen to ideas i express, no matter how crazy. found out recently that im an undermethylator, and since i got that solved, people are way more likely to follow me down rabbitholes,not sure what to make of it,but the difference is so drastic, I could not help but notice "I was told when I grew up I could be anything I wanted: a fireman, a policeman, a doctor - even president, it seemed. And for the first time in the history of mankind, something new, called an astronaut. But like so many kids brought up on a steady diet of westerns, I always wanted to be the avenging cowboy hero - that lone voice in the wilderness, fighting corruption and evil wherever I fount it, and standing for freedom, truth, and justice. And in my heart of hearts I still track the remnants of that dream wherever I go, in my endless ride into the setting sun." Bill Hicks


anti-SJW-bot

Someone has crossposted you to r/enoughpetersonspam . Here's the post: [Not a Cult](https://reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/comments/r43c36/not_a_cult/)


casual_catgirl

In many cultures, harmony is valued more than many other things. There are things that can be learned from the east. Edit: truthful doesn't mean right btw Edit 2: perhaps op can improve by adopting more humility into their character. OP's views might not be the actual truth even if op thinks they are. Speaking truthfully about your opinion doesn't make it right.


Mrsister55

You are being told the truth too dude, you are occurring to others as arrogant and wanting to pick a fight. You should check yourself really genuinely, and ask yourself, why are you telling the truth? In what way? Wanting to be right, superior, judgmental, teaching? Or open, wanting to learn, curious?


CBAlan777

That could be projection. Most claims that people make about others tend to actually be confessions.


Tvde1

Sorry pal but everyone thinks they are "spreading truth". Even the flat earther anti-vaxxer people think they have the truth. We can't help you with that


VikingPreacher

Probably because you say things like "women are not honest"


Fuck_You_Downvote

In ancient times, there lived a musician named Gong Mingyi. He was a master of the Zheng, a plucked string instrument. Unfortunately, his rash behavior often led him astray. One day, he saw a cow grazing in a field near his house. He was inspired by the scene and ran outside to play a tune for the cow. Gong Mingyi played beautifully, finding himself intoxicated by the music. But the cow paid no heed to the elegant sounds, simply focusing its attention on eating the grass. Gong Mingyi was surprised at this and could not comprehend the cow’s flippant indifference. He felt that since his performance had been masterful, this means that the cow neither understood nor appreciated his elegant music! TL:DR not everyone needs to know your outlook all the time so maybe check your audience before weirding people out and coming off as an incel.


AwwwComeOnLOU

Why do you have to answer peoples questions about your beliefs? It’s none of their business. I used to have your problem, then I realized, a mystery is so powerful. Find a firm, but nice way to tell them, “I’m not going to answer that question” You will observe an amazing change. They will have nothing to use against you, and they will jump through hoops to try and crack the mystery. Also the lazy ones will assume your beliefs are the same as theirs, it’s hilarious.


CBAlan777

Yup. I'll say something to someone and they'll say back "why do you think that" and I won't answer. It drives people crazy.


test-dummy66

Uh fuck those other people. Don’t believe me? Then try adopting their world view for a month and try being like them. You will be miserable and probably won’t enjoy their company much.


TheRightMethod

Terrible advice and outlook. Apparently half my family and friends are terrible miserable people because we disagree on either Politics, Religion or Philosophy? Yikes...


test-dummy66

Yeah if they make you feel horrible for telling the truth and trying to explain your view. Your family sucks


Akbhatt

I also always speak truth but I skip certain parts considering the other person I am talking to. I make sure my omissions don't make what I say into a lie .


SwordfishingLobster

People do not like to hear the things they are avoiding.


0nlyhalfjewish

The first person you must be truthful with is yourself. If you are rubbing people the wrong way everywhere you go, the common denominator is you.


Captain_Rex_501

>When he is asked about his beliefs and he trys to articulate them people just misunderstand him and jump on him. Because they’re not misunderstanding him; they’re not even listening.


segaisnotdead

This dude doesn’t get laid And it’s important to him too!


segaisnotdead

Hey OP! Shut up! Quit arguing with people as if you’re the sole harbinger of truth Live your life


PierreJosephDubois

Have you considered not being an incel


Actual_Device2

You are a master of your silence, but a slave to your words. *When* you speak, speak the truth. You don't have to be tone deaf to the circumstances of your utterance. A person's funeral is probably not the best place to point out he was a drunkard. Still true though. What do you gain by being truthful to your enemies? You don't gain less enemies. At best they know more information about you.


mytwocents22

Did you ever think that your world view isn't the truth you think it is?


richasalannister

Sorry bro, youre wrong. You need to use deodorant.


FlyntRybnik

Better get used to it. It never gets better. Being right is a burden, and it takes a lot of strenght to carry it on the long run without turning into a bitter person.


Supercommoncents

People used to kill people who said the world wasnt round. Dont be sad you are not a sheep just find people like you and learn to survive on your own we all will soon enough hahaha


moonordie69420

Sounds like you are surrounded by a bunch of poop heads. find new people


dutchy412

Read the room. This post sounds like b.s.


dopestar667

Not everybody, bucko. Keep fighting the good fight, nobody here hates you.


FireStompingRhino

You gotta read the room. Fools hate to be corrected.


Outrageous-Biscotti2

Is this the truth, what you think is the truth? If it’s what you think is the truth, maybe listen to the people who think your doing something wrong. If you find yourself not immediately able to back up your claims, you might be based in ideology.


mrshitassqfuckhole

I appreciate this post. I’ve had this exact problem my whole after growing up in a passive aggressive household that ended with everyone hated each other. I’d rather say what’s on my mind and hear people’s response then keep it to myself and let things stew. But I’ve discovered there are unrelated aspects of my character that make things harder for me. For example I’m kind of monotone and a depressive person. I’m at Thanksgiving with a friend and we’re playing settlers of Catan. One of the rules says “discard when you have more than 7 cards” and I clarified this means “8 or more.” I get pushback saying “oh, anon always has to critique things!” Explaining that I want to avoid people misunderstanding 7 is when you discard cards doesn’t help. Alternative example, a popular song was played. I said I liked it but there was a remix I thought was better. “Cant you ever like something the same as everyone else?” I don’t know what to do about this stuff. A lot of the answers here are like “fuck those people!” But I’ve lost career opportunities and some of my friendships are strained because of stuff like this. These are things I care about but I don’t think I’m being mean or negative, people just don’t appreciate it. I don’t know what to do about it.


the-dan-man

I find this too. These days I don't think honesty is the answer. Society is a game. If you are at the bottom, playing virtues like honesty seems counter productive. You need to play better to thrive and survive.


moneenerd

I know exactly how you feel. It's lost me a lot of friends. People will think you're being an argumentative contrarian when really *in your head* you're just kind of exploring an idea and the words just spill out. I sometimes wonder if I have ADHD.


higherpublic

There are many things you can do. Read the following book, which has a ton of amazing and straightforward practical information: How to Have Impossible Conversations by James Lindsay Never give up on the truth. Life is never really better outside of the truth. It’s always much better within the truth.


RoadLuca

Keep in mind that you don't "give offence" they "choose to be offended". It doesn't even work on our language to "give offence". It's not on you, and it may be hard or "heartless" but perhaps it's a sign of the company you keep and if you can perhaps you need to re-examine if they're really the kind of people you want around you. The world is vast and there are plenty of people and plenty of ideas. In regards to JP those who speak about him. We see the best and the worst. Most people however are someone in the middle and they don't tend to speak out and if they do they don't make as much noise. Just my 2 Cents.


R_Wallenberg

Plato said that no one is more hated than he who speaks the truth. At the same time, the truth will set you free and lies destroy you and the world around. I think the best path forward is telling the truth, or if you cannot always do so, as Jordan recommends, do not lie. Tactful ways of presenting your truth can dampen any negative repercussions. This is the only way to navigate the world as far as I can tell.


ListenAndThink

Yep this is the cost of speaking the truth, it's the narrow road. Will you continue or give up?


recycle5412

Just make sure you’re not saying “I’m speaking the truth” why you’re actually being a fucking dick but if you’re sure you’re not doing that…. then good on ya mate


saimon1516

I think it's more about being true to yourself or at least not lying to yourself. I don't think that worldview has a play on the whole "speaking the truth" matter. It's about the thinks that truly upset you that you could change by speaking up about them. And sadly debating with people about the state of the world does not get us anywhere except to anger and unhealthy disagreement. I also see this in my life and I'm currently trying to give as little opinion as possible and only when asked, about politics and stuff of course. Relationships and personal life are another thing.


zenethics

If it were easy, there wouldn't need to be a rule about it.


CannedRoo

Matthew 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”


jingqishenheyi

It's worth it


Rand_alThor_

Read “how to win friends and influence people” by Dale Carnegie. This should Help you OP. You don’t have to lie, but you don’t have to always tell people what you’re thinking, especially if you want to make friends with them. The time will come to discuss a serious topic and then you can be honest.but otherwise… read the book actually.


t_minus_420

“Know who’s the most uncomfortable motherfucker in the room? The n—-a that’s right. I was right at an orgy once. Nobody fucked me. I was just walking around like Tom Cruise at the movies, just looking. And ruined the whole orgy by accident. It’s easier to ruin an orgy than you think. All you gotta do is wait for it to get kind of quiet and then go, ‘Eww.’ “ - Dave Chappelle


Dudemancer

The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.” Friedrich Nietzsche ​ you may be being to harsh is ur speech ( sometimes it may be best to not speak at all) or maybe u are just surrounded by weak ppl i have had similar issues. the truth burns.


Big_Jim59

Speaking Truth makes you sound like Alex Jones to people that can't hear it.


wzrd23

"Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate." - Sun Tzu


Some_Squirrel_314

It's honest to say "I'd rather not talk about that."


GargantuanCake

Do you really want somebody in your life that wants you to lie to them constantly? I don't. With the state of society the truth will alienate most people yes but you have to ask yourself; which do you suppose will get you better results? Interacting with the world as it is or interacting with the world as you wish it would be?


maybe_you_wrong

You can't share your thoughts with everyone. It's okay to be quiet or reserve your opinion for a better audience


dancin-barefoot

As soon as you are able, volunteer. Just one hour a week. Help someone else, it helps you too.


techboyeee

I used to think that honesty and dishonesty were two ends of a spectrum. In reality, one end is dishonesty and the other end is rudeness. That is, being honest to the point where you're being rude, and your honesty isn't being helpful to either party. Honesty is somewhere between those extremes. I'd argue that being rudely honest is still better than lying, but it's situational. It's also situational in whether or not to tell the whole truth. There's a fine line with everything. I'd say try looking at your world that way perhaps.


TheLorax9999

You are a node in a network. Behaving honestly will give space for people who know what they are saying is a lie to start to bend towards the truth. Don't despair, it WILL work if you stay true to yourself even when it's hard (especially when you have to confront your own falshoods). The more of us on this insane spinning spaceship that speak the complete messy and real truth, the more we can actually make sense of things and the better our short lives will be. Keep it up.


boop66

Maybe adapt your conversation style to each individual? This does not necessarily mean you aren’t being authentic. For example, I have one friend who really likes to debate, and other people in my life who avoid debates. The discussions I have with these different types of people are not the same, but I’m not being fake with either.


AskMoreQuestionsOk

I met a person while traveling who gave surprisingly good advice - if you want to get along with people, avoid the topics of religion and politics. Think Jay Leno’s garage. You avoid those rails and people will think you’re pretty likable. Anyway…Before you being debating with another person, you need to ascertain whether that person has a high degree of openness, to use a term Jordan uses. If the person is not open to other ideas, then you are wasting your time. Just choose weather and sports and save your skills for someone more willing to listen. For me, debating is more of an intellectual exercise and I’m happy to try at both sides of an issue. But I don’t think most people are willing to do that.


grokmachine

>I get told that Im "fighting people" or that Im arrogant. Based on this, I think you're getting a fair amount of bad advice from people in this thread. It sounds to me like you lack tact in expressing your dissenting views. Some of the other things you wrote, like not being as much of a loudmouth as before, reinforce that. Tact is under-rated. There are ways to disagree, even fundamentally disagree, without being disagreeable. Or at least, to manage the amount of disagreeableness to fit the situation. If you're ok with them believing something different from you, then make sure that's clear. And mean it! If you don't, it will come out in your tone and the disingenuousness will just set you back further. Don't make it about scoring debating points, since that only makes people dig in deeper. If it's worth exploring a topic where you disagree, show that you're genuinely curious about why they think what they do and you're not just talking **at** them. Be willing to acknowledge their good points, and then when it makes sense point out why you still believe what you believe. They are much more likely to come around, or if not, at least land in a place of mutual respect. I would say pay close attention to how JP disagrees with people when he's in a good mood and feels like the other person is discussing something in good faith. Ignore for now the cases where it becomes a battle and the two parties show contempt for each other. Look at the many other examples. There is a charisma to how he approaches a problem and relates it to the human condition that we share. He often shows empathy, even if he brings the conversation back to a point of disagreement. But it takes skill.


Blair_beard

Depends honestly I'm who you're dealing with I recommend doing what I do before sharing my views I want to establish common ground and lake sure we are actually truly pursuing a shared common goal. If not then there's no point as they would not be interested in a genuine conversation.


arkofcovenant

One thing that I find helpful is whenever I'm in that situation, I ask people plainly if they are prepared for the discussion that they are leading into. Something like "Hey, you're asking me questions about a topic that many people are sensitive about. Are you ok with continuing this conversation even if it leads to a situation where we disagree and debate about it? I don't want to upset you, so if you'd prefer to stop here and take the conversation someplace else, I'd be happy to do that." By doing this, you don't have to lie, and you can sometimes avoid conversations that would be entirely unproductive, and its entirely on them if they end up in a turbulent emotional state as a result


idrinkapplejuice42

Do you have good results with this. Im inclined to give it a shot but I fear it will sound condescending or that people wont actually take it seriously.


arkofcovenant

I do, but it all depends on the relationship you have with the person.


ichillonforums

I have dealt with this exact same thing all of my life. I know myself to truly be a huge-hearted ball of sunshine on the inside, but society and the problem in your post has left me feeling disheartened, unappreciated, and undeservedly tainted all of my life. I feel like I am people's strongest advocate, yet get treated like I am the exact opposite. I consider myself Libertarian with a strong sense of justice, I am very objective and I've always felt like there is no way to put my train of thought or my ideal solutions in a way where I don't seem revolting. I have dealt many years with depression and imposter syndrome. I am naturally an intersectional nihilist. I'm a cynic and whether that's innate or an effect of the conversation at hand is debatable, I think both


VeronikaRomaniuk

Read Plato’s Apology for Socrates


[deleted]

Story of my life. Learn to enjoy the fact that people are getting uncomfortable with what you're talking about, and beyond all don't give a shit what other people think about you. It takes strength sometimes, but can you imagine being so defeated that you just shut up, or worse, parrot crap you don't believe?


Ennion

https://imgur.com/XitbxQV.jpg This will ring true for years to come.


yellowsnow3000

Always tell the truth... but don't always be telling it.


LuckyPoire

Stick to your area of expertise


redstone3157

I once moved from the states to a foreign country and had a bit of culture shock. After a time away, I got culture shock moving back to the states. One way to roll with it is to accept that a huge amount of discourse is founded upon different assumptions. Be courteous to others, circumspect about your own opinions, and slowly get to know people and their assumptions. It’s not your job to parent anyone except your own children.


CultOfKush

Alot of great points already about improving your communications toolkit, take responsability for articulation, I realise alot of it is if I'm unfiltered I can sound alot more harsh and judgemental than I intend, so I see that as a insight in how I talk to myself. And sometimes it's not worth it to overthink it looking for the perfect way to say it. And in those cases I have found that saying it while not condemning it helps "this is a bad idea" vs "is this a good idea? Point to flaws" Might still get argumentative but you apply the idea that another person knows something you don't. Then "you are wrong" vs "I disagree". Because it's easier to prove lack of conviction than that someone else is wrong, while also a friendly reminder that it's from your perspective. You may very well not know something or missed something. And you will find competent people focus on why your doubts may not be true, or why even with those doubts it's still worth risking. Meanwhile some may try to be belittling, and now you know that they are more concerned about how they are perceived while spitting on a golden chance to clarify doubts and confusion on matters. Now you know who this person is which is inherintly very valuable. But honestly the most important thing is why you do it, don't let someones mere comfort or that they rather have a puppet saying things they wanna hear instead of a genuine person with thought and beliefs change you, because those people are not worth changing for. And your perception of reality is worth more than gold in many cases, don't sell it short. You do it for the people that need it and they will appriciate you for it, and eventually people will appriciate you for it. There is a reason people get agitated up by the truth and give the honest person more attention, why they keep asking that person questions. even if it is to use you as a tool for denial. Because in my case, alot of people who did not like what I have to say quickly realised I was probably one of the few people still truthful to them. I mean if I didn't care about them I wouldn't throw Pearl's att swine. And just say "is that what you believe? Ok." Because the point is not to satisfy someones urge of being right or wrong. Or not allow them to be wrong. This is to and it will will help you and others make a uncertain existence more navigatable. This is a power that can topple tyrants. Also if someone is asking about my opinion and I believe they will get upset the words "you are not going to like what I have to say" or sometimes even saying "no I'm not gonna say what I think because it's just gonna lead to pointless arguments" is a way of being true while not escalating matters. While giving them a chance to reconsider if the truth is more important to them than their ego. Lastly the people for whom it makes a difference knows there is someone who will say what needs to be said and love it. Silence is the mind killer. Bear the cross of your truth, don't throw pearls att people who choose to remain willfullyignorant. Express uncertainty and risk finding fewer friends but friends that appriciate you to death. It's also harder if you are dealing with someone who has gotten you to back down att some point since they may just try harder to get you to do it again.


Booobmilker

No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth. - Plato Most people have their heads buried in the sand because the truth will shatter their conscious or subconscious defense mechanisms and expose their uncomfortable realities too much.


SalmonHeadAU

Yeah this will never go away. My ex gf would get mad at me for arguing with people. Was more that a topic was being discussed, someone would put forward a point, I'd explain how its been refuted or is a strawman, weak point or a non issue. In a friendly manner, Australian humor kinda thing. But yeah. Always labelled as argumentative cause people don't like being told when they're wrong, or if you disagree with their view.


Boudicca_Grace

I can only suggest “don’t cast your pearls before swine.” Over time I’ve learned to pick up on signs that the person I’m talking with isn’t genuinely interested and is just picking a fight. Telling the truth is sometimes necessary though even if it is uncomfortable. Also - if you find a conversation heading south when you’re sharing your views, ask them about their ideas and background and be genuinely interested. It’s a good way to change a subject and also to not have someone misunderstand you.


AsterixMob

Just make sure you don't fall into the trap of giving unsolicited advice. Sometimes people just need to vent and be heard.


caesarfecit

This is why JBP says "tell the truth, or at least don't lie." So that telling the truth is still a choice, rather than a categorical imperative that obliges us to be brutally honest at all times. Why is this important? Because the truth can do many things. It can heal, it can illuminate, it can unite, it can build. But it can also cause pain, be used sadistically, even be twisted into deception and division. The truth is kinda like air. It's all around us and it's easy to take it for granted. But when it is not respected, it can kill you in all kinds of different ways, from a coal gas explosion or carbon monoxide poisoning, to a tornado. Therefore the truth must be used judiciously, otherwise we're at best Cassandra, or at worst Cartman. Then the concern becomes - how do avoid overcompensating and beginning to self-censor or lie by omission? What distinguishes a lie of omission from simply not saying the truth is two things. The first is an intent to deceive, and the second is whether the other person deserves or needs to know. If you're withholding crucial information that without which creates a false image - you're lying by omission (this also one of the favorite propaganda tactics of the fake news). If you're simply holding something back that which is irrelevant or more harm than good, then you're not.


thegulkak

Could you be a little specific about your controversies?


PM_ME_KNOTS_

Jp isn't god and 12 rules for life are suggestions.


[deleted]

[удалено]


idrinkapplejuice42

This is what Im starting to understand. Acting virtuously doesnt necessarily make you popular. You can be Jesus Christ and still be crucified. I think you act virtuously in spite of social acceptance rather than as a means to it. But it makes me wonder what is virtuous. If what is virtuous is not necessarily what is popular than what is it? How do I orient myself?


kompergator

Remember that speaking your truth may not actually be in line with reality. You still need to be open to the idea that the other person knows more than you, and that you may in fact be wrong. Depending on your truth, it may come off as very offensive (your truth could be racist or sexist for example, despite being what you really think).


mouldering

Do you give the impression, to others, that you care about their opinion of you? Does it bother you when they speak their truth back?


Sloppy_Donkey

Surround yourself with people who like you for who you are and be authentic. Most important: work & family


llerilin

If you keep getting told that you are fighting people, and this is from multiple people, maybe the problem is in your delivery. It's either that or everyone you talk to is just overly sensitive. Either way, I would just find another way to get your point across. What you are trying to do is convince people that their way of thinking is wrong and yours is right. To do that you can't just tell them they are wrong, you have to get them to see that maybe your way is better without telling them they are wrong. You can not change a person's way of thinking, you can only give them the information they need to change on their own. If you offend them or they think you are pushing them they will resist and then there is nothing you will be able to do to sway them. The bottom line is don't blow all your leadership capital with them, once you do that you will not have any influence with them. You may never get that influence back with them after it is lost.


Dionysus_8

It takes a lot of practice to be truthful and still be likeable. So if it’s your first time you’re probably over sharing, over explaining, and maybe talking over people. Or it could be that you need new friends. It could be both. Just keep practicing


ubertrashcat

Speaking the truth isn't the same as being brutally honest. It's speaking up when it matters. When is that? That's for you to know. In general abiding by rules strictly logically is going to make you look like an asshole or an autistic person (no disrespect for autistic people but those who know some also know that nobody else can be a bigger asshole in perfectly good faith than an autistic person). Here, consider [this take on honesty as an example of virtue](https://youtu.be/EUcFqb-DxOA#t=9m51s) (at 9:51)


tanganica3

You can see how much unfair criticism JBP catches for telling the truth. It is by no means easy and you have to decide for yourself whether it is the right approach for you.


The-Cheesemaster

OP, what makes "your truth" "The truth".


polarisol

In such toxic situations you can always say you don't want to discuss the matter, and stick to it. This is also you telling the truth. There are a lot of benefits for telling the truth, but sometimes it is wiser to just shut up.


MrStealYourFrog

Big difference between trying to debate every person on the planet, and speaking the truth. The way I see it, speaking the truth does not mean being honest, rather, it means not lying when you absolutely know you are lying, which can be VERY hard.


hasabiglongdong

It seems you’ve missed of Jordan’s most important lectures - learning to be agreeably disagreeable. That’ll solve your issues. Your problem isn’t what you think. It’s how you express it.


TheeOxygene

Welcome to being surrounded by children. If you want to talk to adults tho, you’ve come to the wrong sub! :/


garmzon

You speak only the truth, but you need to learn what to say and how to listen to others.. conversations are not about proving the other party wrong.. it’s about finding the truth together by exploring the reasoning behind your conclusions


bachiblack

" tell all the truth but tell it slant, success in circuit lies too bright for our infirm delight the truth's superb surprise as Lightning to the children eased with explanation kind the truth must dazzle gradually or every man be blind- Emily Dickinson This poem changed my life. I too would say things thinking I was being tactful, but I recognized I was treating them as if I were talking to myself. I pride myself on contorting my behavior to fit the best information I have, but this isn't how everyone works, so I would logically point out faults with facts, but this only worsened it. One of the worst things you can do is be more rational. You'll only push them further into their cognitive dissonance or as Emily described blinding them. To avoid this tell them that same truth but at a slant. If you claim to walk in the light you are responsible to them not the other way around.


Accomplished_Ice4687

At work, or school etc., so long as it aint being pushed on you, dont bring up religion or politics or challenge peoples worldview. Thats just annoying. What gives you the right to do so? What qualifies you? Why should I listen to your version of the truth? Stand up for yourself when necessary, and get it out on reddit or wherever... but IRL brother, just keep it to yourself unless challenged. Live your truth, don't preach it.